TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[axelbeugre]

Hi all, just wanted to ask for clarification:

1) Is it of general consensus that if you receive and take the VS for a UK firm, it is likely that you will be kept on for a TC?
2) Conversely, if you receive and take the VS for a US firm, there is much more competition for a TC hence no implications?

I have heard some leading US firms (V5, so think Cravath, Skadden...etc) have as many as >15 VS students but only <5 of them got the return offer for TC.

I have no knowledge of their UK counterparts.

Thanks a lot.

Hey @ChanA2626,

I have heard this even when I was applying last year and I think that this is generally what people think but I think it is firm specific. I have many friends who did UK firms vacation scheme and did not manage to convert them (even though the conversion rate is high compared to other firms). I think that generally speaking some UK firms do recruit vastly from the vacation scheme, others do not. I think that the same applies to some US firms. However, I will say that US firms tend to recruit less trainees, however it depends on the firm. Some US firms do offer a lot of training contract to the vacation scheme students (especially cause the cohorts are smaller). For instance, I know that Sullivan & Cromwell offer training contracts to 90% of the people who do the vacation scheme (which is 10 usually).

However, this should not discourage you from applying to them in the slightest. If I believed this statistics I would have never applied to Goodwin and I would have never received the training contract, despite knowing that they only offer 14 training contracts every year. So, definitely put your best foot forward.

Good luck with the application!

 

[axelbeugre]

Hi everyone - I had a first stage interview with Gibson Dunn over two weeks ago now, and haven't heard anything from grad rec. Can anyone who has had a first stage interview with the firm let me know how long it took to hear back from them?

I did it last year and I heard back the next morning, however some people hear after some time so I would wait a little bit longer. However, I do know of some people who received second stage invites who interviewed two weeks ago as well so take this information as you will, but I would wait patiently. I am sure they are still reviewing applications!

Good luck with the process!

 

[nya]

that is crazy, this is the first time ive read smt like this😭

same, I would be absolutely enraged

 

[mfuturetrainee]

same, I would be absolutely enraged

on top of that being best friends w the grad rec who was w u when u were being interviewed is wild 😭

 

[axelbeugre]

Hi, welcome to the forum It’s definitely possible to obtain a TC without legal experience. But I think it’s important to show firms that you have engaged with firms/ attended events that show your commitment to the profession and also your understanding of what it means to work as a lawyer and the work itself. Do you have a law degree or studied a different subject at university?

This is such great advice and explanation! Thank you so much @Lawyerwithadream

 

[nya]

I definitely think that this is a huge conflict of interest, especially considering that you and another candidate were given identical feedback reports. This seems to be a common occurrence with this firm, which is a shame as it is one of my favourites

I need to know which firm this is, if anyone knows drop me a dm x

 

[user9809]

Hi everyone - I had a first stage interview with Gibson Dunn over two weeks ago now, and haven't heard anything from grad rec. Can anyone who has had a first stage interview with the firm let me know how long it took to hear back from them?

Hey when did you apply?

 

[mfuturetrainee]

i

I need to know which firm this is, if anyone knows drop me a dm x

second that pls do lmk as well

 

[user9809]

i

second that pls do lmk as well

Same!

 

[mfuturetrainee]

any PFOs from white & case? I've only seen offers as of now

my crystal ball tells me we're gonna hear back by the end of this week

 

[axelbeugre]

Hi guys,
Would like to know your thoughts on this... I attended an AC at a Silver Circle firm two weeks ago and I learned that X candidate (a successful candidate) on the AC was best friends with the assistant grad rec. The grad rec assistant and the senior grad rec were with us the whole time whilst we were being interviewed by partners/associates. I fully understand that personal connections exist so this did not really bother me much at the time, especially as X themselves revealed that they were best friends after the AC.

Anyway, X learned they were successful right after the AC and told me right away. I waited a couple of days, then received the PFO from the assistant grad rec (the friend). I also received very detailed feedback (about 4 pages long) on each interview giving me 'insight into [my] performance' and 'observations of [my] behaviour'. At first, I thought the feedback seemed very odd because it didn't accurately describe how my interviews went (one of them went amazingly well but this was described as completely the opposite). A bit concerned, I asked another candidate what they thought of their feedback, and to our surprise, we learned that we received word-for-word identical feedback (basically copied and pasted the whole document), and this was also sent to them by the assistant grad rec (the friend).
At this point I was very concerned, so I sent a kind email to grad rec addressing the situation about the identical feedback and asking politely for a more individual assessment of my performance, one that truly reflects my performance for my personal development. It has been nearly 7 days and I have not received a reply.
Should I just forget about it, or should I try to make sure my concerns are properly addressed?
thank you for reading and please let me know your thoughts on this.

Hey @user7879,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I am genuinely sorry for this kind of behaviour, this is not acceptable. Unfortunately, these kind of behaviours are very common in this industry. I have heard worse stories than this. I really hope that these kind of behaviours and preferences during the recruitment process can change because it just limits deserving candidates' successes and this is not okay.

In terms of what you should do, I personally believe that you should let it go and focus on your next applications and firms you are applying to. Use that feedback (even if it is not accurate) as a guideline of things that you should not do during the recruitment process at other firms and try to improve yourself day by day. These situations can happen but I do believe that you can learn from them, and now what you know is that you are not well suited for that firm, and that is okay.

Good luck with the process!

 

[Untilwinter]

Does your performance on your ug commercial law module matter as much as contract or tort when applying for tc?

 

[s9111]

Hi everyone - I had a first stage interview with Gibson Dunn over two weeks ago now, and haven't heard anything from grad rec. Can anyone who has had a first stage interview with the firm let me know how long it took to hear back from them?

Which VS is this for?

 

[axelbeugre]

Which VS is this for?

I am pretty sure this is for the summer since Gibson Dunn only has a summer vacation scheme.

 

[happyhippo0402]

Hey when did you apply?

I applied mid september and received the invite to the first stage interview at the end of october - hope that helps

 

[helga_p]

Does anyone know if applying closer to the deadlines of VC affects being selected? In particular interested in VC at Osborne Clarke. I know some firms do "first come first served basis", does Osborne Clarke do the same? Thanks!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi guys,
Would like to know your thoughts on this... I attended an AC at a Silver Circle firm two weeks ago and I learned that X candidate (a successful candidate) on the AC was best friends with the assistant grad rec. The grad rec assistant and the senior grad rec were with us the whole time whilst we were being interviewed by partners/associates. I fully understand that personal connections exist so this did not really bother me much at the time, especially as X themselves revealed that they were best friends after the AC.

Anyway, X learned they were successful right after the AC and told me right away. I waited a couple of days, then received the PFO from the assistant grad rec (the friend). I also received very detailed feedback (about 4 pages long) on each interview giving me 'insight into [my] performance' and 'observations of [my] behaviour'. At first, I thought the feedback seemed very odd because it didn't accurately describe how my interviews went (one of them went amazingly well but this was described as completely the opposite). A bit concerned, I asked another candidate what they thought of their feedback, and to our surprise, we learned that we received word-for-word identical feedback (basically copied and pasted the whole document), and this was also sent to them by the assistant grad rec (the friend).
At this point I was very concerned, so I sent a kind email to grad rec addressing the situation about the identical feedback and asking politely for a more individual assessment of my performance, one that truly reflects my performance for my personal development. It has been nearly 7 days and I have not received a reply.
Should I just forget about it, or should I try to make sure my concerns are properly addressed?
thank you for reading and please let me know your thoughts on this.

The part of this that concerns me is the identical feedback you and another candidate have received, especially given it is so detailed. To me, this is either 1) an error and the wrong feedback report has been shared or 2) is a cut-and-paste feedback they are giving to everyone. To me the latter is worse than the former, as the former is just an unfortunate error/mistake (although if it references personal data, then there is also a data breach the firm needs to be aware of).

Getting the wrong report might explain why the feedback doesn't match what you think happened in your interviews. So would if it was just a generic feedback report given to every candidate. However, outside of these reasons, it is very feasible for the candidate to have a different view of how the assessment went compared to their assessors. I have lost count of how many people have been really surprised at the feedback I have given them and thought one exercise was a disaster and the other a huge success when it was actually the other way around.

The Graduate Recruitment Assistant will not be the one making the decisions and won't have the ability to influence assessments conducted by other people. Their manager is likely to be aware of the connection too and will be aware they are likely to have some indirect advantage by the friendship. I personally would not expect the connection to the GR Assistant knowing someone at the AC to be connected to the issue you are experiencing. I completely understand how it may look like it, but I just think it is highly unlikely to be the situation. Unless you are confident the GR Assistant was assessing the candidates (e.g. in their interviews etc), I don't see a conflict of interest as others have suggested. People being known to others in the firm is incredibly common - I would just expect a firm to not have that individual assessing the candidate they know or be involved in the decision-making. If they were assessing, then that isn't acceptable in my opinion and really the GR Manager should have had some foresight to keep the GR Assistant out of the assessments and just helping with general admin on the day/showing people to the right rooms etc.

My view on this:

• If your feedback report shares any personal data that can identify other candidates, raise this as a data protection breach with the firm. They will need to action this.
• If not, then wait to see what they say about the generic feedback and why the report is identical to another candidate and whether they can give you more specific feedback. If you feel you have to chase this up, then do so.
• If you do get any more specific/correct feedback, then to me this is the end of the issue. The aspects around the candidate and their connection to GR is based on some assumption of acting without the best of intentions, and I really don't think this would be the case. Even if you were confident there was something happening where the individual clearly got favourable treatment because of who they were, would you really want to work for that firm anyway?

 

[plmokn]

any PFOs from white & case? I've only seen offers as of now

when were the offers given?

 

[mfuturetrainee]

when were the offers given?

its been scattered, I think a few people have been hearing back so I saw one person getting an offer yday on the forum

 

[legally.brown]

Has anyone got AC offers this week from A&O? I just want them to put me out of my misery 😭