TCLA Direct Training Contract Applications Discussion Thread 2022-23

[legallybrunette22]

Has anyone heard back from Simkins or Harbottle & Lewis?

 

[O]

At this point I feel like they’ll start sending responses when they see how the vac schemers progress… the scheme started today

Ah makes sense - can’t say I am optimistic though as I’ve seen a couple of offers here already and on LinkedIn.

 

[mckelly]

@Jessica Booker Hi! I've left this open as a general question for everyone else to contribute to if they'd like. My question is about to how respond in a direct TC interview if you're asked why you didn't convert a previous VS. The feedback which I've received at least twice is that I didn't appear interested in the work which came as a real shock (and disappointment) to me. I think that part of the reason why people have got this impression of me is because I'm a little more reserved than others but obviously that doesn't really stand up as a valid justification ...

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker Hi! I've left this open as a general question for everyone else to contribute to if they'd like. My question is about to how respond in a direct TC interview if you're asked why you didn't convert a previous VS. The feedback which I've received at least twice is that I didn't appear interested in the work which came as a real shock (and disappointment) to me. I think that part of the reason why people have got this impression of me is because I'm a little more reserved than others but obviously that doesn't really stand up as a valid justification ...

Do you mean twice within a vacation scheme or across two different schemes? Just asking as this may change my advice slightly, especially if it is more than two vacation schemes.

 

[Lastseasonwonder]

Anyone got an upcoming VS with Morgan Lewis? Please PM me!

 

[mckelly]

Do you mean twice within a vacation scheme or across two different schemes? Just asking as this may change my advice slightly, especially if it is more than two vacation schemes.

Across two different VS unfortunately...

 

[Jessica Booker]

Across two different VS unfortunately...

Was the second shortly after the first? Just trying to understand if you had time to work on the feedback between them?

 

[mckelly]

Was the second shortly after the first? Just trying to understand if you had time to work on the feedback between them?

Ah no, one was in July 2022 and the other in Dec 2022. I thought I really did try to rectify this at the latest scheme by smiling more, asking more questions etc but alas no luck.

 

[Anabelle4567]

Has anyone heard back from Harbottle and Lewis, Forsters, or Penningtons Manches Cooper?

 

[kmo20]

Would anyone who has applied for the Hogan Lovells direct TC be able to offer any advice on the first application question? Any help would be really appreciated

 

[Jake Rickman]

Hi @CorporateCrocodile,

Typically the most in-depth details you can get on law firm deals as applicants are via news channels such as FT or The Lawyer (which unless you specifically have subscriptions via university library channels etc can also be difficult to access).

It is a little bit of a Hail Mary, I agree, but not impossible to find unique facts about firms. I've never heard of specific partners' names being used and would perhaps advise against this (@Jessica Booker any thoughts?). Instead, focus on what you can find on the law firm's website (this is as much information on deals as they would expect). I would think about more holistic commercial concepts than zeroing in on very specific facts because the firm may expect more knowledge on the matter at the interview than you are able to offer.

@CorporateCrocodile

Just to add to this, I would encourage you to go straight to the sources publications like the FT and Bloomberg often use when reporting on commercial deals.

Probably the hardest thing to do is to figure out which firms are working on a live matter, and the information is not always disclosed or readily available.

But for example, Vodafone and Three UK recently announced an agreement to merge. If you go to Vodafone's Investor Relations webpage, you will see that because they are a public company with various disclosure obligations imposed on them by law and market regulators, there is quite a lot of information on the deal already available. Page 6 of the published investor circular discloses that Slaughter and May are advising Vodafone.

If you're not applying to Slaughter and May, perhaps the deal is slightly less relevant. But even still, the published information gives you a fairly comprehensive dive into the mechanics of the deal. You will have to do a bit of analysis and inference when it comes to figuring out what role the law firms play in the deal, but the more of these you read, the easier it becomes.

Edit: Forgot to add that TCLA published last week a premium article that looks at the way you can approach "primary sources" like investor circulars and company accounts to boost your commercial awareness.

 

[Louise59]

Hi - does anyone know if Cleary Gottlieb recruits on a rolling basis for TC ?
I like the firm but I saw on Legal Cheek the application portal opened in February, so I am not sure it is worth applying. The deadline is end of July.

 

[spamelinazoid]

Hi - does anyone know if Cleary Gottlieb recruits on a rolling basis for TC ?

I like the firm but I saw on Legal Cheek the application portal opened in February, so I am not sure it is worth applying. The deadline is end of July.

From memory from the insight day I’m pretty sure they recruit mainly from their vac schemes and only take in people for direct TCs if they have any left over from the vac scheme.

 

[Louise59]

Hi - does anyone know if Cleary Gottlieb recruits on a rolling basis for TC ?

From memory from the insight day I’m pretty sure they recruit mainly from their vac schemes and only take in people for direct TCs if they have any left over from the vac scheme.

Hi - thanks for letting me know!
Might be worth focusing my time on other firms!

 

[Fd321]

Does anyone who has been successful in securing a TC/VS have any tips of prep. I have had a few interviews and I am worried that I have almost over prepared and psyched myself out a bit, coming across quite nervous and shy as I have “overthought” the whole thing. Normally I am very chatty and personable so I was wondering if anyone had any good tips to let this shine through whilst still seeming like you have done your homework so to speak.

 

[laurabeaumont]

@CorporateCrocodile

Just to add to this, I would encourage you to go straight to the sources publications like the FT and Bloomberg often use when reporting on commercial deals.

Probably the hardest thing to do is to figure out which firms are working on a live matter, and the information is not always disclosed or readily available.

But for example, Vodafone and Three UK recently announced an agreement to merge. If you go to Vodafone's Investor Relations webpage, you will see that because they are a public company with various disclosure obligations imposed on them by law and market regulators, there is quite a lot of information on the deal already available. Page 6 of the published investor circular discloses that Slaughter and May are advising Vodafone.

If you're not applying to Slaughter and May, perhaps the deal is slightly less relevant. But even still, the published information gives you a fairly comprehensive dive into the mechanics of the deal. You will have to do a bit of analysis and inference when it comes to figuring out what role the law firms play in the deal, but the more of these you read, the easier it becomes.

Edit: Forgot to add that TCLA published last week a premium article that looks at the way you can approach "primary sources" like investor circulars and company accounts to boost your commercial awareness.

Truly excellent advice - @Jake Rickman I wish I'd had your articles when I was applying! You can find them in the Commercial Awareness Forum/Section on the left hand side

 

[laurabeaumont]

Does anyone who has been successful in securing a TC/VS have any tips of prep. I have had a few interviews and I am worried that I have almost over prepared and psyched myself out a bit, coming across quite nervous and shy as I have “overthought” the whole thing. Normally I am very chatty and personable so I was wondering if anyone had any good tips to let this shine through whilst still seeming like you have done your homework so to speak.

Hi @Fd321 ,

I had filled my laptop screen with hundreds of mini sticky notes before my first-ever vacation scheme interview... which was a big mistake. I think part of the reason I didn't succeed in that interview was that I had rehearsed all of my answers (partly out of anxiety but also because I thought that was expected of me). This was a really bad idea on my part - I was basically acting my own words out and sounded like a robot!

The best advice I have received on VS interviews (TC interviews may be slightly different and I'll explain in a second) to help me come out of my self-confined shell is that you want to prove to your interviewer that you'd be a great person to go for a drink with (alcoholic or non-alcoholic!). Of course, you want to be enthusiastic about your chosen career path, but not at the cost of being genuine as an individual. Law firms are made up of teams of individuals who, just like you and me, enjoy socialising (especially given how client-facing the role is). You want to be someone who can contribute to that dynamic in a positive way.

Unconsciously or not, grad rec will be trying to fit you into their law firm dynamic. The funniest thing I ever realised when I was doing the LPC (and most of my cohort also observed the same) was that there truly was a law firm 'personality' you could assign to each group of future trainees. I realised that beyond academics and your achievements, part of the application process is character based (you can't properly observe it until later in the game).

Demonstrating 'the right character' is obviously the trouble. I am not trying to be cynical and say they are judging you for 'being you' (that's actually not the case, it is 99.9% competency), so don't stop practising interviews and your commercial awareness. I am trying to say the opposite. There really is no other way than to be yourself. It sounds cheesy and clichè, but it is in your favour. If you aren't yourself, you are putting yourself at a disservice ie you want to be offered a role somewhere that accepts you for being yourself.

It is all at the end of the day a mind battle - being nervous and shy is part of the interview 'territory' and finding coping mechanisms is very personal (I like to online shop before any exam or interview because it somehow turns my mind off enough to forget the anxiety which is telling me to be someone I'm not). To aid that battle, I like to remember it's a conversation with a potential future colleague. Someone you might be having a quick coffee with within a few years! Of course, the VS interview is not a coffee chat so I caveat that by saying please do remember to be duly respectful, but thinking of it in that way should take some of the pressure off. I'd love to hear how everyone helps to take the pressure off them before interviews - does anyone do anything whimsical like me?

It depends on the firm, but TC interviews are a different creature entirely. You will be pushed further on your opinions considerably. Of course, I am not saying to act like a robot, but you will need to be on your 'A game' slightly more. Paradoxically, given these interviews are typically harder content-wise, you are thinking less about how you act and more about how to answer.

Hope that helps in some way!

@Jessica Booker - any more insights?

 

[Untilwinter]

Do Weil recruit meaningfully through the direct TC route? Is it still worth applying?

 

[Fd321]

Hi @Fd321 ,

I had filled my laptop screen with hundreds of mini sticky notes before my first-ever vacation scheme interview... which was a big mistake. I think part of the reason I didn't succeed in that interview was that I had rehearsed all of my answers (partly out of anxiety but also because I thought that was expected of me). This was a really bad idea on my part - I was basically acting my own words out and sounded like a robot!

The best advice I have received on VS interviews (TC interviews may be slightly different and I'll explain in a second) to help me come out of my self-confined shell is that you want to prove to your interviewer that you'd be a great person to go for a drink with (alcoholic or non-alcoholic!). Of course, you want to be enthusiastic about your chosen career path, but not at the cost of being genuine as an individual. Law firms are made up of teams of individuals who, just like you and me, enjoy socialising (especially given how client-facing the role is). You want to be someone who can contribute to that dynamic in a positive way.

Unconsciously or not, grad rec will be trying to fit you into their law firm dynamic. The funniest thing I ever realised when I was doing the LPC (and most of my cohort also observed the same) was that there truly was a law firm 'personality' you could assign to each group of future trainees. I realised that beyond academics and your achievements, part of the application process is character based (you can't properly observe it until later in the game).

Demonstrating 'the right character' is obviously the trouble. I am not trying to be cynical and say they are judging you for 'being you' (that's actually not the case, it is 99.9% competency), so don't stop practising interviews and your commercial awareness. I am trying to say the opposite. There really is no other way than to be yourself. It sounds cheesy and clichè, but it is in your favour. If you aren't yourself, you are putting yourself at a disservice ie you want to be offered a role somewhere that accepts you for being yourself.

It is all at the end of the day a mind battle - being nervous and shy is part of the interview 'territory' and finding coping mechanisms is very personal (I like to online shop before any exam or interview because it somehow turns my mind off enough to forget the anxiety which is telling me to be someone I'm not). To aid that battle, I like to remember it's a conversation with a potential future colleague. Someone you might be having a quick coffee with within a few years! Of course, the VS interview is not a coffee chat so I caveat that by saying please do remember to be duly respectful, but thinking of it in that way should take some of the pressure off. I'd love to hear how everyone helps to take the pressure off them before interviews - does anyone do anything whimsical like me?

It depends on the firm, but TC interviews are a different creature entirely. You will be pushed further on your opinions considerably. Of course, I am not saying to act like a robot, but you will need to be on your 'A game' slightly more. Paradoxically, given these interviews are typically harder content-wise, you are thinking less about how you act and more about how to answer.

Hope that helps in some way!

@Jessica Booker - any more insights?

Thank you so much!

 

[HendyBabyFutureLawyer]

Truly excellent advice - @Jake Rickman I wish I'd had your articles when I was applying! You can find them in the Commercial Awareness Forum/Section on the left hand side

@Jake Rickman. "Edit: Forgot to add that TCLA published last week a premium article that looks at the way you can approach "primary sources" like investor circulars and company accounts to boost your commercial awareness." My apologies Jake I am interested in the article, but I can't seem to find it. Is it included in the premium newsletter? Thank you!