TC prospects and law firm targeting help

[Hus95]

Hi all,

new member here who needs help targeting the right types of law firm and a realistic assessment of my chances of securing a TC.

i have a conversion MA in law with a goodish 2.1 (67) from a Russell group university. I got a first on my undergrad (same uni), albeit its in business and sociology. I joined a couple of societies and took part in sport/volunteering but spent more time concentrating on my studies than I probsbly should have. I have work experience in general and since graduating ive worked as an in house paralegal for a household name uk company and currently work for a regional uk firm as a paralegal in PI.

Heres the problem... my A-levels are atrocious, C C E. I have no mitigating circumstances on record, I was just around negative influences and didnt concentrate on my studies. for context, I have A's and B's at GCSE, with more A's than B's. I didnt apply for vacs scheme and tc's in the past as i assumed automatic rejection. I know this was stupid but I struggled with imposter syndrome and general fear of more failure, which im getting better with. The more i work in the legal sector the more ive loved it. so if i was to apply to regional/high street firms do you think i can get a TC?

my long term ambition would be to move to a larger firm PQ, possibly london but im not sure. i know thats not gonna happen off the bat but if i work up the ladder pq is that feasible? another issue is my current job is in PI and i have no modules in commercial subjects on my degree due to the 19/20 lecture strikes. Would it be possible though if i get a tc at a high street/ regional and keep progressing,
something like high street/regional firm training to a national or international firm PQ?

Any honest thoughts will be appreciated so please dont hesitate. This isnt a sympathy post, I have no one to blame other than myself and want to be realistic in the firms I target. I know a lot of city firms and large nationals/ internationals say they dont have minimuk A level grades but most people who I would be competing with dont have such a major blip as I have. Many thanks

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi all,

new member here who needs help targeting the right types of law firm and a realistic assessment of my chances of securing a TC.

i have a conversion MA in law with a goodish 2.1 (67) from a Russell group university. I got a first on my undergrad (same uni), albeit its in business and sociology. I joined a couple of societies and took part in sport/volunteering but spent more time concentrating on my studies than I probsbly should have. I have work experience in general and since graduating ive worked as an in house paralegal for a household name uk company and currently work for a regional uk firm as a paralegal in PI.

Heres the problem... my A-levels are atrocious, C C E. I have no mitigating circumstances on record, I was just around negative influences and didnt concentrate on my studies. for context, I have A's and B's at GCSE, with more A's than B's. I didnt apply for vacs scheme and tc's in the past as i assumed automatic rejection. I know this was stupid but I struggled with imposter syndrome and general fear of more failure, which im getting better with. The more i work in the legal sector the more ive loved it. so if i was to apply to regional/high street firms do you think i can get a TC?

my long term ambition would be to move to a larger firm PQ, possibly london but im not sure. i know thats not gonna happen off the bat but if i work up the ladder pq is that feasible? another issue is my current job is in PI and i have no modules in commercial subjects on my degree due to the 19/20 lecture strikes. Would it be possible though if i get a tc at a high street/ regional and keep progressing,
something like high street/regional firm training to a national or international firm PQ?

Any honest thoughts will be appreciated so please dont hesitate. This isnt a sympathy post, I have no one to blame other than myself and want to be realistic in the firms I target. I know a lot of city firms and large nationals/ internationals say they dont have minimuk A level grades but most people who I would be competing with dont have such a major blip as I have. Many thanks

Hi @Hus95 - it is great to have you join us at TCLA.

I think there are enough large, international firms with no academic criteria that you should be looking at. Many firms no longer have minimum A-level criteria and given the rest of your academics, I think you are in with a good chance of being considered for them. Here is a good starting point as to who those firms might be: Application and selection criteria - Chambers Student Guide

Moving from a high-street firm to a national or international firm once qualified is probably going to be much more difficult than your current position. People in high-street firms are highly unlikely to be dealing with the same type of clients - in terms of size/scale/complexity/reach - that will be comparable to what is expected of the larger firms. High street firms are often dealing with SMEs and individuals on personal matters - getting exposure to large multi-national companies on matters that are worth millions (or even more) is going to be very limited.

The fact you don't have commercial modules is not an issue - you can show your interest in or knowledge of commercial matters in many other ways. A lot of trainees do not have commercial modules on their CV when they secure TCs - so I don't think this will be an issue.

I think you should try to apply to some commercial firms now in all honesty. It sounds like you haven't tried yet - you are just making the assumption it is going to be an absolute no. From experience, I know that won't be the case.

Try to make some applications to open days or try to "network" with firms. With anyone with a "blip" on their application (and trust me, the vast majority of people have some form of blip), I advise that they try to get their name/face recognised by people in the firm. I have lost count how many "blips" I have seen, but I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt because they had impressed me or someone else in the firm who was willing to "back" their application.

 

[Hus95]

Hi @Hus95 - it is great to have you join us at TCLA.

I think there are enough large, international firms with no academic criteria that you should be looking at. Many firms no longer have minimum A-level criteria and given the rest of your academics, I think you are in with a good chance of being considered for them. Here is a good starting point as to who those firms might be: Application and selection criteria - Chambers Student Guide

Moving from a high-street firm to a national or international firm once qualified is probably going to be much more difficult than your current position. People in high-street firms are highly unlikely to be dealing with the same type of clients - in terms of size/scale/complexity/reach - that will be comparable to what is expected of the larger firms. High street firms are often dealing with SMEs and individuals on personal matters - getting exposure to large multi-national companies on matters that are worth millions (or even more) is going to be very limited.

The fact you don't have commercial modules is not an issue - you can show your interest in or knowledge of commercial matters in many other ways. A lot of trainees do not have commercial modules on their CV when they secure TCs - so I don't think this will be an issue.

I think you should try to apply to some commercial firms now in all honesty. It sounds like you haven't tried yet - you are just making the assumption it is going to be an absolute no. From experience, I know that won't be the case.

Try to make some applications to open days or try to "network" with firms. With anyone with a "blip" on their application (and trust me, the vast majority of people have some form of blip), I advise that they try to get their name/face recognised by people in the firm. I have lost count how many "blips" I have seen, but I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt because they had impressed me or someone else in the firm who was willing to "back" their application.

Hi Jessica

Thank you for your advice!

I have prepared a list of firms without A-level requirements, and will be actively applying. Its reassuring to hear from someone with your experience that my application wont be auto rejected.

I should clarify that I meant targeting regional rather than high street firms with a strong commercial area, with a hope to move to a larger firm in the same location. I will definitely look at applying to london firms as well, but if I qualify at a reputable regional firm and eventually get into the regional office of large national/ international at the height of my career I would be very happy. Would that be possible if you qualify at a smaller reputable regional firm? i dont know if im selling myself short there but it seems city law firms would still be slightly out of my reach at this stage

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica

Thank you for your advice!

I have prepared a list of firms without A-level requirements, and will be actively applying. Its reassuring to hear from someone with your experience that my application wont be auto rejected.

I should clarify that I meant targeting regional rather than high street firms with a strong commercial area, with a hope to move to a larger firm in the same location. I will definitely look at applying to london firms as well, but if I qualify at a reputable regional firm and eventually get into the regional office of large national/ international at the height of my career I would be very happy. Would that be possible if you qualify at a smaller reputable regional firm? i dont know if im selling myself short there but it seems city law firms would still be slightly out of my reach at this stage

Working for a commercial regional firm will put you in a stronger position to potentially move to a larger firm, whether that be national or international. It will depend on a lot of factors though - where you qualify into, who your clients were, how in demand lawyers in your area are etc.

I think at the moment anything is possible though. I don't think it is as simple as a smaller firm being more open to your academic grades - some regional firms will be even pickier than city firms. I think its really about finding the firms that are right for you, rather than a particular route being your only option.

 

[Hus95]

Thanks, I am going to apply for the firms I have got on my list. Based on what you have said I am going to aim for the ones

Working for a commercial regional firm will put you in a stronger position to potentially move to a larger firm, whether that be national or international. It will depend on a lot of factors though - where you qualify into, who your clients were, how in demand lawyers in your area are etc.

I think at the moment anything is possible though. I don't think it is as simple as a smaller firm being more open to your academic grades - some regional firms will be even pickier than city firms. I think its really about finding the firms that are right for you, rather than a particular route being your only option.

Thanks, I am going to apply for the firms I have got on my list. Based on what you have said I am going to aim for the ones I like the look ofand take it from there.

I am honestly quite surprised as I thought my profile would be an automatic write off, but based on what youve said there's still a chance. Thank you Jessica!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks, I am going to apply for the firms I have got on my list. Based on what you have said I am going to aim for the ones

Thanks, I am going to apply for the firms I have got on my list. Based on what you have said I am going to aim for the ones I like the look ofand take it from there.

I am honestly quite surprised as I thought my profile would be an automatic write off, but based on what youve said there's still a chance. Thank you Jessica!

I want to be upfront about things - for some firms it will be an automatic write off. They stick rigidly to their A-level requirements and they would make a decision on yours and that would be that.

But there are enough firms that don't screen applications like that and I have seen enough people with "poor" A-level grades become trainees, even in major firms that you would think were super competitive. It just takes a bit of time and energy for you to explore who those firms are.

 

[Hus95]

I want to be upfront about things - for some firms it will be an automatic write off. They stick rigidly to their A-level requirements and they would make a decision on yours and that would be that.

But there are enough firms that don't screen applications like that and I have seen enough people with "poor" A-level grades become trainees, even in major firms that you would think were super competitive. It just takes a bit of time and energy for you to explore who those firms are.

understood, I have avoided any firms that give any minimum A level requirements, and the ones I am looking dont have any stated minimum requirements (particularly targeting ones that emphasise contextual approach and looking at the application holistically) .

I am realistic enough to know its still a long shot, but it will still be good experience regardless.

Thanks again!

 

[George Maxwell]

understood, I have avoided any firms that give any minimum A level requirements, and the ones I am looking dont have any stated minimum requirements (particularly targeting ones that emphasise contextual approach and looking at the application holistically) .

I am realistic enough to know its still a long shot, but it will still be good experience regardless.

Thanks again!

Hey @Hus95,

I wanted to say that I thought this thread was brave of you. I agree with Jess though, don't count yourself out of the game without even having started(!).

I am always on hand (along with @James Carrabino and @AvniD) to help with any application-related questions if it would be helpful. Tag me whenever

 

[Hus95]

Hey @Hus95,

I wanted to say that I thought this thread was brave of you. I agree with Jess though, don't count yourself out of the game without even having started(!).

I am always on hand (along with @James Carrabino and @AvniD) to help with any application-related questions if it would be helpful. Tag me whenever

Thanks George!

still navigating my way around the site but i definitely will do.

Thank you for the offer. Its nice to be in a supportive environment. I fell into the bad habit of scrolling linkedin and seeing trainees with seemingly impeccable academic profiles time after time, as well as visiting certain forums that paint a grim picture of peoples prospects.

I will definitely take Jessica's advice and use the resources available on here going forward. Thanks again 😀

 

[George Maxwell]

Thanks George!

still navigating my way around the site but i definitely will do.

Thank you for the offer. Its nice to be in a supportive environment. I fell into the bad habit of scrolling linkedin and seeing trainees with seemingly impeccable academic profiles time after time, as well as visiting certain forums that paint a grim picture of peoples prospects.

I will definitely take Jessica's advice and use the resources available on here going forward. Thanks again 😀

Hey @Hus95,

You are absolutely welcome. When I was applying, I fell into similar traps (it is really really easy to do!). I also turned to TCLA because it is such a supportive, welcoming environment. I am delighted that you feel the same way (I am going to tag @Jaysen as he will love to see this too!).

Do let me know if you would like any help in navigating our resources/the forums too.

Let us know if you find anything particularly difficult/non-intuitive as this is helpful feedback for us 🙌. We are always looking to improve the service we provide to the community so any comments you make will be taken seriously (I can guarantee that!)

 

[Hus95]

Sorry I just have one more question. At my current firm in my paralegal role I am getting involved with the volunteering/charity sides, and looking to make a contribution to one of the various committees.

This is in aid of the internal application process. Would other law firms have any interest in this? or as its internal to another firm is it not worth mentioning? I have some EC's from uni but I deffo could have done more. I spent more time studying and working than I probably should have done so I dunno if this will have a similar effect or be redundant other than for my internal application. either way still going to get involved as I really like my firm and I am proactive and passionate about volunteering now that I am in a better space.

thanks again and enjoy the bank holiday weekend 😀

 

[Jessica Booker]

Sorry I just have one more question. At my current firm in my paralegal role I am getting involved with the volunteering/charity sides, and looking to make a contribution to one of the various committees.

This is in aid of the internal application process. Would other law firms have any interest in this? or as its internal to another firm is it not worth mentioning? I have some EC's from uni but I deffo could have done more. I spent more time studying and working than I probably should have done so I dunno if this will have a similar effect or be redundant other than for my internal application. either way still going to get involved as I really like my firm and I am proactive and passionate about volunteering now that I am in a better space.

thanks again and enjoy the bank holiday weekend 😀

Hi! Yes - any firm would be interested to know this in applications. Definitely something to mention, especially if your ECs at university could have been stronger.

 

[Hus95]

@Jessica Booker sorry to resurrect an old thread but I took your advice and applied. rejected at some initial stages, got to the video interview stage for CMS and the vac scheme/ final interview for Womble Bond Dickinson! still waiting to hear although it could have gone better (nerves got the better of me at times) but nevertheless a 1 week vac scheme on my CV now is worth it.

Thank you to you and George for your words of encouragement, it helped me take the first step and I know what I need to do better next year!

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker sorry to resurrect an old thread but I took your advice and applied. rejected at some initial stages, got to the video interview stage for CMS and the vac scheme/ final interview for Womble Bond Dickinson! still waiting to hear although it could have gone better (nerves got the better of me at times) but nevertheless a 1 week vac scheme on my CV now is worth it.

Thank you to you and George for your words of encouragement, it helped me take the first step and I know what I need to do better next year!

This is great news - glad for hear things have gone well.

 

[RANDOTRON]

@Jessica Booker sorry to resurrect an old thread but I took your advice and applied. rejected at some initial stages, got to the video interview stage for CMS and the vac scheme/ final interview for Womble Bond Dickinson! still waiting to hear although it could have gone better (nerves got the better of me at times) but nevertheless a 1 week vac scheme on my CV now is worth it.

Thank you to you and George for your words of encouragement, it helped me take the first step and I know what I need to do better next year!

Hi, I just read through this thread and congrats on coming this far! Both @Jessica Booker and @George Maxwell have given excellent advice and insight, so I don't have anything to add by way of advice. But I thought I'd share some personal experience. I did the International Baccalaureate and got roughly BBC (converted to A-level) while a friend got DDD. Both of us went to non-Russell Group universities for our undergrad and Russell Group for our postgrad. I personally hesitated applying during both my undergrad and postgrad, because I thought my IB score would mean I would never succeed and I feared rejection. But one day I figured why not, it's not like I have to pay to apply, so what's the risk? So I applied to a list of City firms. And now both my friend and I have TCs at international law firms in London. And the lesson I learned is: let them say no to you.

I also noticed your comment that you have a bad habit of scrolling LinkedIn and comparing yourself to trainees with seemingly impeccable academic profiles. But don't compare yourself to them – everyone's journey is different.. If you find it really distracting, one way you could deal with this is to unfollow people in your connection. In case you're interested, here's how to mass unfollow your connections.

You got this! 👍

 

[Hus95]

Hi, I just read through this thread and congrats on coming this far! Both @Jessica Booker and @George Maxwell have given excellent advice and insight, so I don't have anything to add by way of advice. But I thought I'd share some personal experience. I did the International Baccalaureate and got roughly BBC (converted to A-level) while a friend got DDD. Both of us went to non-Russell Group universities for our undergrad and Russell Group for our postgrad. I personally hesitated applying during both my undergrad and postgrad, because I thought my IB score would mean I would never succeed and I feared rejection. But one day I figured why not, it's not like I have to pay to apply, so what's the risk? So I applied to a list of City firms. And now both my friend and I have TCs at international law firms in London. And the lesson I learned is: let them say no to you.

I also noticed your comment that you have a bad habit of scrolling LinkedIn and comparing yourself to trainees with seemingly impeccable academic profiles. But don't compare yourself to them – everyone's journey is different.. If you find it really distracting, one way you could deal with this is to unfollow people in your connection. In case you're interested, here's how to mass unfollow your connections.

You got this! 👍

Thank you so much for sharing and congratulations on getting a TC!

I appreciate this so much, its great to hear of people who have made a similar transition. I am going to cast my net further in the next cycle definitely and spend more time on my applications.

Yeah i have spent far less time on Linkedin recently and the people I follow now have benefitted me through networking and their positive mindset. im going to look for a new role and no matter the outcome of the interview I feel like im closer having now got a vac scheme and had a taste of commercial work.

Thanks again for reaching out, greatly appreciated 🙂

 

[Hus95]

Hi all

still cant believe this but I got the TC! I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who posted words of encouragement in response to my original post, I was so unsure if I would even be considered and if you hadnt taken the time out to encourage me I may have not even applied!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi all

still cant believe this but I got the TC! I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who posted words of encouragement in response to my original post, I was so unsure if I would even be considered and if you hadnt taken the time out to encourage me I may have not even applied!

Amazing news - congratulations!! These are the type of posts we love as we can see the absolute wonder of the forums leading to such an amazing outcome.