Tackling Virtual Vacation Schemes - What do you feel let you down in your past VVS?

[ChuPnl]

Hi, I know there are virtual vacation schemes advice threads already, but I thought it would be a good thing for people to discuss what potentially let them down in their past virtual VS, and how they can turn those set-backs into positive improvements for upcoming VVS.

I personally didn't go through any VVS last year, but do have one upcoming this summer and would love to hear about your experience.
What do you feel you could have improved during those VS and what do you aim to do in your future ones to make the experience even more valuable?

Let's turn this thread into a positive energy thread that allows everyone to reflect back on their journey.
Anyone's input is welcome, I'm looking forward to hearing about your stories

 

[Holly]

Great thread idea! 💡

 

[ChuPnl]

By the way, even if your VS outcome was positive (TC offer), feel free to add your 2 cents to the thread!

I'm sure that even when things go right for us at the end of the journey, there can still be things we think we could have done better!

 

[Anon08]

Okay, well, I was technically rejected after a virtual vacation scheme, so I'll kick things off, I guess.

So, for context, I achieved a summer vacation scheme for 2020. Coronavirus hit, and the scheme was transformed into a 'virtual vacation scheme'. Now, this VVS (I love the abbreviation btw!) was not a 'working' vacation scheme. What occurred, over the course of five days, was:

1. Three days full of presentations given by the firm
2. One social event
3. One written exercise to be completed over roughly 36-48 hours
4. One 30-minute interview in front of two partners whilst a member of grad rec watched

We were only assessed as part of the written exercise and the interview. The presentations were to give us more information about the firm, its culture, its work, etc. and the social was...well, a social.

I was rejected, and in my feedback call I was only provided with where I placed, divided into thirds: below average, average, above average. My written exercise was 'above average', with little further feedback of note. However, with regards to my interview, I was marked down for one question, which was concerning my motivation for the firm. My answer was 'average', and they were disappointed that I 'did not go further' in my answer. The rest of my interview was said to be very good; however, because I did not display sufficient motivation for the firm, and apparently, the career (namely, gave an 'average' answer), I was rejected for their TC.

Now, where do I think I could have improved? Well, they made it quite clear that there was one central area for improvement - my firm motivation (they also criticised my career motivation in the feedback call; however, as far as I recall - my opinion and perhaps dubious memory, I was not asked about this). To be honest, it was fair criticism - the answer was average, and it was a pretty strong wake-up call. I realised that I had to polish my firm motivation answers to an inch of their lives because it had always been the bit that gave me the greatest trouble, and now it had finally become an issue. Needless to say, I focused on improving my motivation answers, and I was successful in my other pursuits as a result.

I bring up this story because some firms are still doing non-working VVSs and are still giving candidates a week of presentations and assessments, similar to what I had. The lesson I took from this kind of scheme is that you don't have the scheme itself to count in your favour. The traditional advice is to 'do good work' - however, if you aren't working, then it basically all comes down to these virtual AC-style assessments. And, because they haven't met you, you are still held to a very high standard, and they expect you to have improved on your AC answers in light of the VVS and the presentations received.

So, whilst I am not saying that you should polish your firm motivation answers to within an inch of their lives, I am recommending that, if you have a VVS that is similar to this kind of format, you should really brush up on your traditional interview answers/practices. Furthermore, be prepared to amend those answers and incorporate what you learn on the VVS into what you say. Don't just shoehorn content in; genuinely reflect on what you will learn about the firm and, if need be, rewrite your answer.

I hope that helps!

PS: I realise that this post might seem rather scary or a bit of a buzzkill. Let me allay those feelings. After being rejected from the firm, within seven months, I received vacation scheme offers from an Elite US firm and a good British firm, and I received training contract offers from an SC firm and an MC firm. The feedback that my firm motivation wasn't as strong as it should have been was instrumental in my success. Feedback/constructive criticism isn't a bad thing - in fact, it might just be the best thing that you could get!

 

[Anon08]

Also, for a more positive experience/tips - see this post, and check out the thread for more tips surrounding VSs/ACs!

 

[ChuPnl]

Okay, well, I was technically rejected after a virtual vacation scheme, so I'll kick things off, I guess.

So, for context, I achieved a summer vacation scheme for 2020. Coronavirus hit, and the scheme was transformed into a 'virtual vacation scheme'. Now, this VVS (I love the abbreviation btw!) was not a 'working' vacation scheme. What occurred, over the course of five days, was:

1. Three days full of presentations given by the firm
2. One social event
3. One written exercise to be completed over roughly 36-48 hours
4. One 30-minute interview in front of two partners whilst a member of grad rec watched

We were only assessed as part of the written exercise and the interview. The presentations were to give us more information about the firm, its culture, its work, etc. and the social was...well, a social.

I was rejected, and in my feedback call I was only provided with where I placed, divided into thirds: below average, average, above average. My written exercise was 'above average', with little further feedback of note. However, with regards to my interview, I was marked down for one question, which was concerning my motivation for the firm. My answer was 'average', and they were disappointed that I 'did not go further' in my answer. The rest of my interview was said to be very good; however, because I did not display sufficient motivation for the firm, and apparently, the career (namely, gave an 'average' answer), I was rejected for their TC.

Now, where do I think I could have improved? Well, they made it quite clear that there was one central area for improvement - my firm motivation (they also criticised my career motivation in the feedback call; however, as far as I recall - my opinion and perhaps dubious memory, I was not asked about this). To be honest, it was fair criticism - the answer was average, and it was a pretty strong wake-up call. I realised that I had to polish my firm motivation answers to an inch of their lives because it had always been the bit that gave me the greatest trouble, and now it had finally become an issue. Needless to say, I focused on improving my motivation answers, and I was successful in my other pursuits as a result.

I bring up this story because some firms are still doing non-working VVSs and are still giving candidates a week of presentations and assessments, similar to what I had. The lesson I took from this kind of scheme is that you don't have the scheme itself to count in your favour. The traditional advice is to 'do good work' - however, if you aren't working, then it basically all comes down to these virtual AC-style assessments. And, because they haven't met you, you are still held to a very high standard, and they expect you to have improved on your AC answers in light of the VVS and the presentations received.

So, whilst I am not saying that you should polish your firm motivation answers to within an inch of their lives, I am recommending that, if you have a VVS that is similar to this kind of format, you really brush up on your traditional interview answers/practices. Furthermore, be prepared to amend those answers and incorporate what you learn on the VVS into what you say. Don't just shoehorn content in; genuinely reflect on what you will learn about the firm and, if need be, rewrite your answer.

I hope that helps!

PS: I realise that this post might seem rather scary or a bit of a buzzkill. Let me allay those feelings. After being rejected from the firm, within seven months, I received vacation scheme offers from an Elite US firm and a good British firm, and I received training contract offers from an SC firm and an MC firm. The feedback that my firm motivation wasn't as strong as it should have been was instrumental in my success. Feedback/constructive criticism isn't a bad thing - in fact, it might just be the best thing that you could get!

Thank you for contributing and sharing this story Neville!

It is always hard to reflect on rejections, so thank you for showing us a more vulnerable side of your story.

I really like how you pointed out that this rejection helped you understand your motivations better, and that you were able to take their feedback and use it to gain further VS and TC offers.

I can definitely imagine how frustrating it must be to do a non-working VVS (I fear that mine may be similar in structure) as it doesn't always allow you to perform to the best of your abilities.

Your story also shows that, even when someone performs well on most of the tasks, it does not determine whether they will get an offer - but it also means that you don't necessarily need to tick all the boxes to get the offer (one firm might place more weight on motivation/on the interview, where other firms may focus on the quality of your written task).

As you have rightfully said, feedback is the best thing you can get - which is definitely the message I am trying to convey with this thread.

 

[Etudierlaw2022]

Okay, well, I was technically rejected after a virtual vacation scheme, so I'll kick things off, I guess.

So, for context, I achieved a summer vacation scheme for 2020. Coronavirus hit, and the scheme was transformed into a 'virtual vacation scheme'. Now, this VVS (I love the abbreviation btw!) was not a 'working' vacation scheme. What occurred, over the course of five days, was:

1. Three days full of presentations given by the firm
2. One social event
3. One written exercise to be completed over roughly 36-48 hours
4. One 30-minute interview in front of two partners whilst a member of grad rec watched

We were only assessed as part of the written exercise and the interview. The presentations were to give us more information about the firm, its culture, its work, etc. and the social was...well, a social.

I was rejected, and in my feedback call I was only provided with where I placed, divided into thirds: below average, average, above average. My written exercise was 'above average', with little further feedback of note. However, with regards to my interview, I was marked down for one question, which was concerning my motivation for the firm. My answer was 'average', and they were disappointed that I 'did not go further' in my answer. The rest of my interview was said to be very good; however, because I did not display sufficient motivation for the firm, and apparently, the career (namely, gave an 'average' answer), I was rejected for their TC.

Now, where do I think I could have improved? Well, they made it quite clear that there was one central area for improvement - my firm motivation (they also criticised my career motivation in the feedback call; however, as far as I recall - my opinion and perhaps dubious memory, I was not asked about this). To be honest, it was fair criticism - the answer was average, and it was a pretty strong wake-up call. I realised that I had to polish my firm motivation answers to an inch of their lives because it had always been the bit that gave me the greatest trouble, and now it had finally become an issue. Needless to say, I focused on improving my motivation answers, and I was successful in my other pursuits as a result.

I bring up this story because some firms are still doing non-working VVSs and are still giving candidates a week of presentations and assessments, similar to what I had. The lesson I took from this kind of scheme is that you don't have the scheme itself to count in your favour. The traditional advice is to 'do good work' - however, if you aren't working, then it basically all comes down to these virtual AC-style assessments. And, because they haven't met you, you are still held to a very high standard, and they expect you to have improved on your AC answers in light of the VVS and the presentations received.

So, whilst I am not saying that you should polish your firm motivation answers to within an inch of their lives, I am recommending that, if you have a VVS that is similar to this kind of format, you should really brush up on your traditional interview answers/practices. Furthermore, be prepared to amend those answers and incorporate what you learn on the VVS into what you say. Don't just shoehorn content in; genuinely reflect on what you will learn about the firm and, if need be, rewrite your answer.

I hope that helps!

PS: I realise that this post might seem rather scary or a bit of a buzzkill. Let me allay those feelings. After being rejected from the firm, within seven months, I received vacation scheme offers from an Elite US firm and a good British firm, and I received training contract offers from an SC firm and an MC firm. The feedback that my firm motivation wasn't as strong as it should have been was instrumental in my success. Feedback/constructive criticism isn't a bad thing - in fact, it might just be the best thing that you could get!

Hi Neville, thanks for sharing! I have a VVS this summer that I also had last summer, and was unsuccessful in converting. My biggest downfall was also in motivation - I did a terrible job explaining "why commercial law." Do you have any advice on how to polish the motivation answer? I've sat down and had a good think about my story (I'm a career changer) and have a specific example for every part (such as events attended, specific exercises I've undertaken at other firms that have confirmed my interest in commercial law), but I fear it's still too "generic". Thanks !

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Neville, thanks for sharing! I have a VVS this summer that I also had last summer, and was unsuccessful in converting. My biggest downfall was also in motivation - I did a terrible job explaining "why commercial law." Do you have any advice on how to polish the motivation answer? I've sat down and had a good think about my story (I'm a career changer) and have a specific example for every part (such as events attended, specific exercises I've undertaken at other firms that have confirmed my interest in commercial law), but I fear it's still too "generic". Thanks !

Not Neville, but one question that comes up with career changers is why are they willing to start a career from the bottom of the ladder. There can often be a question as to whether you will get bored of doing the more basic work, especially if you have had significant responsibility in your previous career.

Other troublesome spots can be if you explain a reason for leaving your career that equally (or more) applies to law.

 

[Dheepa]

Hi Neville, thanks for sharing! I have a VVS this summer that I also had last summer, and was unsuccessful in converting. My biggest downfall was also in motivation - I did a terrible job explaining "why commercial law." Do you have any advice on how to polish the motivation answer? I've sat down and had a good think about my story (I'm a career changer) and have a specific example for every part (such as events attended, specific exercises I've undertaken at other firms that have confirmed my interest in commercial law), but I fear it's still too "generic". Thanks !

Adding to what Jess has said, I think that having previously been on a VS - your motivations will come across stronger already just because you're still showing clear interest and drive to pursue the career despite the previous rejection. I'd also suggest updating your "Why commercial law" answer to include experiences from your previous VS and the upcoming one you're doing - always good to show the firm that in exactly what ways your time with them has further confirmed your desire to be a lawyer + train there.

 

[relentlesspursuit]

Adding to what Jess has said, I think that having previously been on a VS - your motivations will come across stronger already just because you're still showing clear interest and drive to pursue the career despite the previous rejection. I'd also suggest updating your "Why commercial law" answer to include experiences from your previous VS and the upcoming one you're doing - always good to show the firm that in exactly what ways your time with them has further confirmed your desire to be a lawyer + train there.

Just to follow on from this, I have a vac scheme starting next week which I was interviewed for in March. How much would my motivations be expected to have changed by the exit interview point? I plan to incorporate my time at the firm into that motivation (if it does indeed influence it) but not sure if I will be expected to have developed further motivations since then.

 

[Dheepa]

Just to follow on from this, I have a vac scheme starting next week which I was interviewed for in March. How much would my motivations be expected to have changed by the exit interview point? I plan to incorporate my time at the firm into that motivation (if it does indeed influence it) but not sure if I will be expected to have developed further motivations since then.

They don't have to change substantially, I'd just recommend using some recent examples from your time at the firm to help substantiate your existing motivations further.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Just to follow on from this, I have a vac scheme starting next week which I was interviewed for in March. How much would my motivations be expected to have changed by the exit interview point? I plan to incorporate my time at the firm into that motivation (if it does indeed influence it) but not sure if I will be expected to have developed further motivations since then.

It’s not that they substantially need to change in terms of reasons, but it’s probably good to try and think about what you have experienced at the firm and how it has reaffirmed your choices/decision.

 

[relentlesspursuit]

They don't have to change substantially, I'd just recommend using some recent examples from your time at the firm to help substantiate your existing motivations further.

Thanks Dheepa - I'll definitely do this

 

[relentlesspursuit]

It’s not that they substantially need to change in terms of reasons, but it’s probably good to try and think about what you have experienced at the firm and how it has reaffirmed your choices/decision.

Thank you Jessica