SQE - general discussion

[Jessica Booker]

You learn something everyday - from the Barbri article mentioned above:

"You can have three attempts at passing SQE1"

I bet this particular policy doesn't last long...

 

[Jessica Booker]

Ah yes that is a good point. If I get a TC do you think firms will still pay me back for it?

For the GDL? Yes, if that is their policy now then yes. Might be different by the time they get to their 2024 intakes though.

 

[Adam Gilchrist]

Ah yes that is a good point. If I get a TC do you think firms will still pay me back for it?

Some do, some don't. Linklaters do for sure. It's always worth asking - the worst they can say is no!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Latest info from the SRA around transitional arrangements (eg moving from current system to new system):

https://www.sra.org.uk/students/sqe/transitional-arrangements/

 

[D95]

If anyone's interested, I have spoken to a Barbri representative on the phone today and they confirmed to me the below:
- the SQE prep course cost should be released by the end of this month and it is currently estimated it will be around £6,000 for the two courses (personally, I am pleasantly surprised if it indeed turns out to be true - however, the cost may be higher for those who did not do LLB and so need the longer prep);
- the enrollment is similarly set to start this month for the January 2021 intake - there will be more intakes though, depending on whether one opts for a full-time or part-time basis or if they already have the LLB under their belt or not.

 

[Jaysen]

Just to add, LittleLaw are currently doing an Instagram live with a Barbri representative about the SQE: https://www.instagram.com/littlelawnews/?hl=en.

 

[D95]

Barbri has started enrolment for SQE1 prep courses: https://barbri-prep.com/sqe/sqe1-prep/#enrol

There are 3 different course available at the price of £2,999.

Personally, I think the pricing quite okay - I have always considered the LPC course fees the biggest of scams in the history of scams, maybe ever, whereas this cost looks very reasonable (of course that does not include the exam cost which is £3,980 for both parts: https://www.sra.org.uk/sra/news/press/sqe-final-design-costs/)

 

[Jessica Booker]

Barbri has started enrolment for SQE1 prep courses: https://barbri-prep.com/sqe/sqe1-prep/#enrol

There are 3 different course available at the price of £2,999.

Personally, I am quite pleased with the pricing - I have always considered the LPC course fees the biggest of scams in the history of scams, maybe ever, whereas this cost looks very reasonable (of course that does not include the exam cost which is £3,980 for both parts: https://www.sra.org.uk/sra/news/press/sqe-final-design-costs/)

It must be from £2,999 - the 40 week course can't be the same as the 20 week course. Its also an introductory rate - I hate to think how this goes up after the first twelve months. It also only covers SQE1.... the more expensive prep course will be for SQE2....

I am not convinced this will be saving candidates that much money after all - particularly if they have to sit exams more than once.

 

[D95]

It must be from £2,999 - the 40 week course can't be the same as the 20 week course. Its also an introductory rate - I hate to think how this goes up after the first twelve months. It also only covers SQE1.... the more expensive prep course will be for SQE2....

I am not convinced this will be saving candidates that much money after all - particularly if they have to sit exams more than once.

Barbri representative confirmed to me that the course fee is the same for all three different options. This is all just down to intensity - the 40 week long course is not going to have as many tutorials per week as the shorter course and, in particular, the longest version is aimed at those who are currently in full-time employment.

Also, the second course is supposed to be priced very similarly to prep course 1.

I do agree with you, however, that it is very likely that they prices may rise in the future and the current rate is just to convince the first batch to take this route.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Barbri representative confirmed to me that the course fee is the same for all three different options. This is all just down to intensity - the 40 week long course is not going to have as many tutorials per week as the shorter course and, in particular, the longest version is aimed at those who are currently in full-time employment.

Also, the second course is supposed to be priced very similarly to prep course 1.

I do agree with you, however, that it is very likely that they prices may rise in the future and the current rate is just to convince the first batch to take this route.

The 40 week course is for non-lawyers while the 20 week course is for law students. Cramming law into 20 weeks part time won't be less intense... unless they are just prepping them for the assessments and not actually teaching them any law. This wouldn't surprise me when all they are having to teach them is how to pass a multiple choice test.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Had a look at the website more thoroughly:

SQE 1 prep course currently: £2,999
SQE 1 exam costs: £1,558
SQE 2 prep course currently: £2,999
SQE 2 exam costs: £2,422

So £22 shy of £10,000. There are several LPC courses that are cheaper than £10,000. Another issue with BARBRI - it isn't a master course, so you won't be eligible for post-graduate student finance either. Also wont qualify for a student visa either.

 

[D95]

The 40 week course is for non-lawyers while the 20 week course is for law students. Cramming law into 20 weeks part time won't be less intense... unless they are just prepping them for the assessments and not actually teaching them any law.

Well, technically all three courses are for non-lawyers

The rest is explained on their website and, alas, as someone who is merely looking into qualifying that way, I will leave the explanations on the differences between the three options to the authorised SQE prep course providers (just an idea: it would be cool if TCLA could perhaps team up with Barbri or some other provider to get some more clarity here?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Well, technically all three courses are for non-lawyers

The rest is explained on their website and, alas, as someone who is merely looking into qualifying that way, I will leave the explanations on the differences between the three options to the authorised SQE prep course providers (just an idea: it would be cool if TCLA could perhaps team up with Barbri or some other provider to get some more clarity here?

I meant people who had not studied law....

Cramming the equivalent of the GDL into 20 weeks on a part-time basis, I can see why the profession is concerned that quality will drop with this new system. A major concern that you aren't learning the subject matter, you are just learning how to pass an exam.

 

[Aspiring.lawyer.to.be]

If you have completed the LPC, would you be exempt from doing the SQE?

I know you can qualify under the equivalent means and be exempt from getting a training contract.

 

[Jessica Booker]

If you have completed the LPC, would you be exempt from doing the SQE?

I know you can qualify under the equivalent means and be exempt from getting a training contract.

Yes - you'd be exempt until 2032. The LPC/TC route will exist until then.

Qualifying under equivalent means is not straight forward - I know many candidates who have been refused via this route. You basically have to show your work experience is equivalent to a TC. You'll also need to complete the PSC too.

 

[Aspiring.lawyer.to.be]

Yes - you'd be exempt until 2032. The LPC/TC route will exist until then.

Qualifying under equivalent means is not straight forward - I know many candidates who have been refused via this route. You basically have to show your work experience is equivalent to a TC. You'll also need to complete the PSC too.

Thank you. I understand many have been refused, but some have successfully managed to qualify through the equivalent means process. https://www.lawcareers.net/Explore/...d-less-travelled-to-qualifying-as-a-solicitor

How does this requirement of getting work experience equivalent to a TC differ to the 'QWE' which needs to be completed under the SQE system? Do you think many candidates will be refused too?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you. I understand many have been refused, but some have successfully managed to qualify through the equivalent means process. https://www.lawcareers.net/Explore/...d-less-travelled-to-qualifying-as-a-solicitor

How does this requirement of getting work experience equivalent to a TC differ to the 'QWE' which needs to be completed under the SQE system? Do you think many candidates will be refused too?

Yes - some have been successful, but as the article suggests it is not a straight forward process at all.

The irony is that the SQE QWE requirement isn't regulated anywhere near as stringently as the current equivalent means process. You basically just get a solicitor or compliance officer to sign the QWE off for you - there are no checks placed on it and the assumption is the solicitor/compliance officer has the integrity needed to ensure you have met the required standards.

It is why many people who were going down the QWE route are now just looking to take the SQE assessments in November 2021 instead.

 

[Jane Smith]

Yes, there are serious concerns about whether SQE QWE will place newly qualified in as good a position and indeed whether they will be safe to advise clients compared with a training contract. On QWE I know an in house solicitor who signed off QWE for a trainee who did the 2 years TC whilst doing the LPC part time over 2 years and was very careful to make sure every requirement was satisfied otherwise the solicitor would be struck off. I don't think solicitors will be putting their careers in jeopardy to sign off people who do not have enough of the right kind of experience but the risk is more that the rules may allow a sign off on people who have not done much of value. I suppose after that the check and balance is that no solicitors firm will hire them as a qualified solicitor if their work experience does not look good enough.

I am also concerned the costs may be higher - eg if you do the GDL fee costs are £9k to £11k with BPP. If you do SQE once available you do the course quoted above plus pay the large fee to sit the exam. Those sums together seem to be not far short of the GDL fee just for SQE1.

 

[Aspiring.lawyer.to.be]

Yes - some have been successful, but as the article suggests it is not a straight forward process at all.

The irony is that the SQE QWE requirement isn't regulated anywhere near as stringently as the current equivalent means process. You basically just get a solicitor or compliance officer to sign the QWE off for you - there are no checks placed on it and the assumption is the solicitor/compliance officer has the integrity needed to ensure you have met the required standards.

It is why many people who were going down the QWE route are now just looking to take the SQE assessments in November 2021 instead.

Thank you. I appreciate your response

I am just worried about the fact some law firms will not be recruiting for training contracts after Sept 2021.

For example: Baker McKenzie - https://uk-graduates.bakermckenzie.... continue to offer,be affected by the changes.

''The Solicitors Qualifying Exam (SQE)
The Solicitors Regulation Authority has announced that the SQE, a new route to qualification, will come into effect from 2021. We’ll continue to offer training contracts through the current route up to 2021. This means that, as things currently stand, anyone due to start a training contract with us before 2024 will not be affected by the changes.''

So if we've completed the LPC, we will be left with no choice but to sit the SQE2 + QWE - eventhough SRA says we can still qualify under the current route until 2032.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you. I appreciate your response

I am just worried about the fact some law firms will not be recruiting for training contracts after Sept 2021.

For example: Baker McKenzie - https://uk-graduates.bakermckenzie.com/programme/training-contracts/#:~:text=We'll continue to offer,be affected by the changes.

''The Solicitors Qualifying Exam (SQE)
The Solicitors Regulation Authority has announced that the SQE, a new route to qualification, will come into effect from 2021. We’ll continue to offer training contracts through the current route up to 2021. This means that, as things currently stand, anyone due to start a training contract with us before 2024 will not be affected by the changes.''

So if we've completed the LPC, we will be left with no choice but to sit the SQE2 + QWE - eventhough SRA says we can still qualify under the current route until 2032.

Yes - that is a risk. Many firms don't want a two system process for qualification and therefore will switch everyone to the SQE together. As non-law graduates will only be able to take the SQE from January 2022 onwards, it means that the 2024 intakes are the first intake where the SQE will come in. Up until a few weeks ago it was going to the 2023 intakes, but the SRA extended the GDL route until 31 December 2021.

You will also need to sit SQE1 - you won't be exempt from that so it will be SQE1 + SQE2 + QWE.

Undoubedtly this may impact the firms you choose to apply to. Some firms will be willing to have a dual qualification process - but many aren't due to the complexities it brings and the differences in how the two sets of trainees will be treated.