pre employment checks for VS/TC

[finalyear]

If you can provide any other form of proof that could be helpful. A decision will be made as to whether a reference for this won’t be needed by Vero and the firm in question. Typically it depends on how it fits into your profile - if they can get every other reference for other employment then it’s less likely to be an issue, if it’s your only employment or there are multiple issues with getting confirmation of your work experiences, then it could be more of a problem.

ah ok thank you so much!

 

[finalyear]

If you can provide any other form of proof that could be helpful. A decision will be made as to whether a reference for this won’t be needed by Vero and the firm in question. Typically it depends on how it fits into your profile - if they can get every other reference for other employment then it’s less likely to be an issue, if it’s your only employment or there are multiple issues with getting confirmation of your work experiences, then it could be more of a problem.

Ah ok thank you so much!

 

[TCLA1234]

Hi @Jessica Booker

I wanted to check if I will have a potential problem regarding references. I have a vac scheme in the summer and have been told that Vero will only be taking references from my current employer.

On the work experience section of my application, the only experience I put down as current was with a company I wrote articles for on a voluntary basis (I thought this was standard procedure to put down voluntary roles), would this be a problem since this was an unpaid role? Also, is there any chance that vero again asks who my current employer is on the questionnaire that they will send through, as I guess that would avert the problem (as I could say I don't have one), or do they automatically take the one that is current on my application form?

Secondly, I see a potential problem with the dates. Basically, the way the role works is that I write articles on an ad hoc basis (say usually once a month or less than that). However, when my supervisor last contacted me in November (through WhatsApp), my grandad had just died. As a result she told me not to worry about the article that I had just been working on and that she was happy for me to continue working with them in the future and write articles, as and when I am ready. This was the last contact we had - for reference, this was in early November and the application was in early December. Would I have an issue in terms of dates here?

(For reference this was the last conversation I had with my supervisor, as after my grandad passed, I was a bit of a mess and the role was the last thing on my mind. When I finally returned to working I was very behind and had a lot to do and to be honest forgot about the role)

Do you envisage any problems Jessica, I have never done a reference check before and don't know how it works? I would really appreciate any guidance you can provide (I'm scared of losing the vac scheme over this)!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker

I wanted to check if I will have a potential problem regarding references. I have a vac scheme in the summer and have been told that Vero will only be taking references from my current employer.

On the work experience section of my application, the only experience I put down as current was with a company I wrote articles for on a voluntary basis (I thought this was standard procedure to put down voluntary roles), would this be a problem since this was an unpaid role? Also, is there any chance that vero again asks who my current employer is on the questionnaire that they will send through, as I guess that would avert the problem (as I could say I don't have one), or do they automatically take the one that is current on my application form?

Secondly, I see a potential problem with the dates. Basically, the way the role works is that I write articles on an ad hoc basis (say usually once a month or less than that). However, when my supervisor last contacted me in November (through WhatsApp), my grandad had just died. As a result she told me not to worry about the article that I had just been working on and that she was happy for me to continue working with them in the future and write articles, as and when I am ready. This was the last contact we had - for reference, this was in early November and the application was in early December. Would I have an issue in terms of dates here?

(For reference this was the last conversation I had with my supervisor, as after my grandad passed, I was a bit of a mess and the role was the last thing on my mind. When I finally returned to working I was very behind and had a lot to do and to be honest forgot about the role)

Do you envisage any problems Jessica, I have never done a reference check before and don't know how it works? I would really appreciate any guidance you can provide (I'm scared of losing the vac scheme over this)!

It is not an issue that it is an unpaid role.

Your submission to Vero should match what you put on your application, although in your instance you could just make it clearer than the role ended at around the same time you submitted the application and therefore it is something you no longer do. As it is informal/unpaid, there is not really going to be an issue here as it is explainable.

I don't foresee this to be a problem at all though.

 

[TCLA1234]

It is not an issue that it is an unpaid role.

Your submission to Vero should match what you put on your application, although in your instance you could just make it clearer than the role ended at around the same time you submitted the application and therefore it is something you no longer do. As it is informal/unpaid, there is not really going to be an issue here as it is explainable.

I don't foresee this to be a problem at all though.

That's brilliant, thank you @Jessica Booker !

Just a couple of more things:

I didn't mention it was an unpaid role in the application (their wasn't a box which asked), guessing this isn't a problem?

Also, I have just checked and I stated I began the role in June 2020 on the application (it was in fact July 2020 when I started), are they really going to care about this? (It was a genuine mistake)

Finally out of interest what sort of things would typically be asked during the reference check? For instance, would they check how many articles I published for instance or If I secured sponsors if I said this in my application?

Thanks again

 

[Jessica Booker]

That's brilliant, thank you @Jessica Booker !

Just a couple of more things:

I didn't mention it was an unpaid role in the application (their wasn't a box which asked), guessing this isn't a problem?

Also, I have just checked and I stated I began the role in June 2020 on the application (it was in fact July 2020 when I started), are they really going to care about this? (It was a genuine mistake)

Finally out of interest what sort of things would typically be asked during the reference check? For instance, would they check how many articles I published for instance or If I secured sponsors if I said this in my application?

Thanks again

No - it is not a problem.

The start date might be more of a concern, but given it was an informal role and done on an ad-hoc basis, this might be ok. You will just need to explain this to the people at Vero.

Vero might not even request a reference from this organisation though where it wasn't even employment.

A reference is just a check of your job title, employment dates and an ask to flag up if there were any major issues (e.g. disciplinary/bad attendance/poor performance). They don't ask employers to verify the descriptions of your entries.

 

[TCLA1234]

That's brilliant @Jessica Booker , thanks again!

Also, if offered the TC will the firm contact all of the employers listed. Or would this be the only reference check?

 

[Jessica Booker]

That's brilliant @Jessica Booker , thanks again!

Also, if offered the TC will the firm contact all of the employers listed. Or would this be the only reference check?

They are likely to contact anyone within a set period - usually somewhere between the last 3-7 years (both education and employment).

 

[lawyertobe]

They are likely to contact anyone within a set period - usually somewhere between the last 3-7 years (both education and employment).

Hi Jessica,
I'm very sorry if this has already been answered. I was wondering when you say 'anyone within a set period' do you mean that they will literally contact every single employer and will need a response from every single one before you can start working (eg. every single one of paid employers), or that they pick and choose some to contact randomly to see if anything worrying comes up? Say if you have quite a few employers so will you need each and every one of them to respond and confirm?

Also, you mentioned that before leaving employment you should check what would be said in a reference. What if you know for certain that a reference will be bad (not because of your fault but because of a toxic environment and unforeseen toxic employer who leaves bad references for all). Is there anything you can do or would you just need to explain the circumstances after the reference has been received? Is there a best way to explain the bad environment without seeming as if you are trying to twist a situation of your own bad performance... Thank you!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,
I'm very sorry if this has already been answered. I was wondering when you say 'anyone within a set period' do you mean that they will literally contact every single employer and will need a response from every single one before you can start working (eg. every single one of paid employers), or that they pick and choose some to contact randomly to see if anything worrying comes up? Say if you have quite a few employers so will you need each and every one of them to respond and confirm?

Also, you mentioned that before leaving employment you should check what would be said in a reference. What if you know for certain that a reference will be bad (not because of your fault but because of a toxic environment and unforeseen toxic employer who leaves bad references for all). Is there anything you can do or would you just need to explain the circumstances after the reference has been received? Is there a best way to explain the bad environment without seeming as if you are trying to twist a situation of your own bad performance... Thank you!

They will need to contact everyone in a set period.

They can't pick and choose - this is about verifying all the information you provided on your application form.

You only need to check what will be on your reference if there has been problems with working there (e.g. you are fired/sacked/have disciplinary issues). There is no reason otherwise to check. A toxic employer does not necessarily give bad references - whether good or bad, they are most likely just going to provide a factual reference that will state your job title and dates of employment. The only time I have seen bad references is there is a good reason the employer is having to disclose their concerns to the potential new employer.

 

[lawyertobe]

They will need to contact everyone in a set period.

They can't pick and choose - this is about verifying all the information you provided on your application form.

You only need to check what will be on your reference if there has been problems with working there (e.g. you are fired/sacked/have disciplinary issues). There is no reason otherwise to check. A toxic employer does not necessarily give bad references - whether good or bad, they are most likely just going to provide a factual reference that will state your job title and dates of employment. The only time I have seen bad references is there is a good reason the employer is having to disclose their concerns to the potential new employer.

Great @Jessica Booker thank you for this info! Also, I had another question - when Vero (/other screening provider) contacts these past employers, do they see, say if you're going to be working for Freshfields, (as an example), that the screening is being done on behalf of Freshfields? Or would they only see that Vero is checking with them for verification?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Great @Jessica Booker thank you for this info! Also, I had another question - when Vero (/other screening provider) contacts these past employers, do they see, say if you're going to be working for Freshfields, (as an example), that the screening is being done on behalf of Freshfields? Or would they only see that Vero is checking with them for verification?

The reference request will state who the reference is on behalf of even if it is via an outsourced company.

They have to state it to ensure that information can be shared with the organisation.

 

[jungkook]

Hi Jessica @Jessica Booker I am sorry to dig up a thread from a while ago. However im just wondering something about the screening process. Im currently going through screening for a paralegal role and i realised that on my CV, I put down an experience where I worked as a paralegal, but when i traced back to my past employment contract and the reference letter, these state that my "contractual title" was a legal intern. Would this be a problem if i use these terms interchangeably in my application because when I was working there, my role was very similar to that of a paralegal, and it was a 3-month experience. Thank you!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica @Jessica Booker I am sorry to dig up a thread from a while ago. However im just wondering something about the screening process. Im currently going through screening for a paralegal role and i realised that on my CV, I put down an experience where I worked as a paralegal, but when i traced back to my past employment contract and the reference letter, these state that my "contractual title" was a legal intern. Would this be a problem if i use these terms interchangeably in my application because when I was working there, my role was very similar to that of a paralegal, and it was a 3-month experience. Thank you!

I would use your actual job title to ensure there aren’t any issues. I wouldn’t interchange the two job titles for future applications.

If it’s already on a job application, then you’ll just have to tackle it going forward if you have any onboarding processes. I don’t think it will be an issue as such, but it’s likely to be flagged in the reference checking processes.

 

[Wls1507]

Hi Jessica @Jessica Booker wondered if I could as a question. When law firms ask for references before your TC, what sort of things do they ask?
For instance, when I wrote my TC application, I wrote answers based on my experience working in a certain department/floor at a department store. Since then, I had changed departments and managers and I’m afraid that the reference will ask them if what I wrote in the application/scenario was true and she would have no clue or the past manager does not remember so say it didn’t happen and assume I was lying.

Also, if there are discrepancies in the dates because of a genuine typing mistake or you counted a period of training as your start date and this flags up because the employer says different, is this generally problematic or will it be a simple case of clarification? Apologies if they have been repeated above

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica @Jessica Booker wondered if I could as a question. When law firms ask for references before your TC, what sort of things do they ask?
For instance, when I wrote my TC application, I wrote answers based on my experience working in a certain department/floor at a department store. Since then, I had changed departments and managers and I’m afraid that the reference will ask them if what I wrote in the application/scenario was true and she would have no clue or the past manager does not remember so say it didn’t happen and assume I was lying.

Also, if there are discrepancies in the dates because of a genuine typing mistake or you counted a period of training as your start date and this flags up because the employer says different, is this generally problematic or will it be a simple case of clarification? Apologies if they have been repeated above

It will most likely just be job title and employment dates and just a check to see you aren’t guilty of any misconduct.

The firm could ask for more, but the reality is for those type of roles, your employer will only confirm when you were employed and under what job title. If that job title changed as you moved departments, then that would be reflected in the reference. If your job title didn’t change, then the change of departments wouldn’t be flagged (but the law firm wouldn’t really care anyway).

Discrepancy in dates are slightly different. But it really depends on what the discrepancy is. Something that is a few days out will be looked at very differently than something that is a few years out too. Also depends how clear the error is. For instance, I had an error on one of my reference checks as I put 29 April instead of 28 April (or vice versa) and it was just a typo where the numbers were close together on the keyboard. Claiming a typo of February when you meant October is probably not going to look favourable. If you could provide clarity on something like you thought your employment started on X date but actually it was Y date as you had to complete formal training first, then that could be easily explained or evidenced (for instance you may have correspondence that confirms your training started on X date).

 

[Wls1507]

It will most likely just be job title and employment dates and just a check to see you aren’t guilty of any misconduct.

The firm could ask for more, but the reality is for those type of roles, your employer will only confirm when you were employed and under what job title. If that job title changed as you moved departments, then that would be reflected in the reference. If your job title didn’t change, then the change of departments wouldn’t be flagged (but the law firm wouldn’t really care anyway).

Discrepancy in dates are slightly different. But it really depends on what the discrepancy is. Something that is a few days out will be looked at very differently than something that is a few years out too. Also depends how clear the error is. For instance, I had an error on one of my reference checks as I put 29 April instead of 28 April (or vice versa) and it was just a typo where the numbers were close together on the keyboard. Claiming a typo of February when you meant October is probably not going to look favourable. If you could provide clarity on something like you thought your employment started on X date but actually it was Y date as you had to complete formal training first, then that could be easily explained or evidenced (for instance you may have correspondence that confirms your training started on X date).

Thank you so much for your reply!!

I’m asking about the dates because I volunteered at a law clinic for a project and I remember putting the end of the project as October. even though the project finished in July, me and a few other volunteers presented our project findings on behalf of the law centre at a conference in October and prepared for it during September. Is that something, if it was to flag because of the gap, I could easily evidence with e.g. the conference video link?

Also, my firm said they would require 3 professional references covering 5 years 3 months prior to my TC next summer. Although they haven’t specified yet, is this likely to be a third company contacting me/referees as mentioned by other people in the forum (I’d never heard of this before) or do law firms sometimes ask for you to manually provide three referees and they’ll contact them directly for a character reference? My TC is at a large national firm.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you so much for your reply!!

I’m asking about the dates because I volunteered at a law clinic for a project and I remember putting the end of the project as October. even though the project finished in July, me and a few other volunteers presented our project findings on behalf of the law centre at a conference in October and prepared for it during September. Is that something, if it was to flag because of the gap, I could easily evidence with e.g. the conference video link?

Also, my firm said they would require 3 professional references covering 5 years 3 months prior to my TC next summer. Although they haven’t specified yet, is this likely to be a third company contacting me/referees as mentioned by other people in the forum (I’d never heard of this before) or do law firms sometimes ask for you to manually provide three referees and they’ll contact them directly for a character reference? My TC is at a large national firm.

If it is a voluntary role, they may not even seek a reference as you weren't employed. Even if they did, as you said you could provide other supporting evidence, so I don't think this will be an issue.

The firm or an outsourced company will seek the references so you will just need to provide their contact details - they won't ask for you to provide the references as this is much more likely to lead to fraud - they need to get the information directly from the source.

 

[Wls1507]

If it is a voluntary role, they may not even seek a reference as you weren't employed. Even if they did, as you said you could provide other supporting evidence, so I don't think this will be an issue.

The firm or an outsourced company will seek the references so you will just need to provide their contact details - they won't ask for you to provide the references as this is much more likely to lead to fraud - they need to get the information directly from the source.

Ah I see thank you. For instance, I volunteered at a US defenders office for 6 weeks but I put summer intern as although I wasn’t paid, I was provided accommodation and transport for free. I don’t know if the title of the job would flag up.

Is it weird to ask a law firm for your past application to review it/gain peace of mind? I’m stressed I may have made a typo or genuine mistake and would rather rectify it now rather than they think I’m lying as soon as they see a discrepancy and lose my TC.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Ah I see thank you. For instance, I volunteered at a US defenders office for 6 weeks but I put summer intern as although I wasn’t paid, I was provided accommodation and transport for free. I don’t know if the title of the job would flag up.

Is it weird to ask a law firm for your past application to review it/gain peace of mind? I’m stressed I may have made a typo or genuine mistake and would rather rectify it now rather than they think I’m lying as soon as they see a discrepancy and lose my TC.

Usually when you start the process you have to provide more details on whether the role was paid etc. They will make a decision as whether to seek a reference or not based on their experiences - they literally request these types of references day in day out and so know what is likely to be obtained and what won't. They will speak to you if they have any concerns or want you to provide any further information instead.

In all honesty, yes it is slightly weird to ask this. You are not going to lose a TC for an honest mistake that can be explained.