No idea where to begin! Help !

[SSmith]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, and I apologise for the length but...I'm wondering if anyone has any guidance or experience of going through the Non Law SQE route ?

I'm what would be considered a "mature student " . At 35 ,I already have a 2:1 in an unrelated degree and I've been putting off doing the conversion course for years . I'd like to go the route of applying for a training contract.
I'm wondering if I need to just do my GDL ( BPP) and then apply for a TC or the GDL which includes SQE1 prep ( BPP) and THEN apply .I've tried to ask BPP and they've just advised it's up to me ,which doesn't help !

I ask because it's my understanding that the firm will fund the rest ( SQE 1 and 2) after my GDL is achieved?

I'm so confused 😕

A bit of background:

Over the years , due to amassing a great deal of self taught knowledge of the law I've won two of my own housing court cases .
I have constantly been encouraged by solicitors and even a detective in a family member's case to practice law .

I'm already jokingly known as the go to "lawyer" for family members ,friends and neighbours who don't know their rights and I throughly enjoy it . I'm thinking it's time I make it official haha

But honestly, what has put me off is wondering if I'd be able to handle the stress as someone who has anxiety and depression.

My goal is to become a housing solicitor helping those who have gone through the types of issues I have with housing . But I now know firms like this don't usually sponsor trainees . I know I'd be better off being trained by a firm that practices conveyancing or estates.

Should I try and apply for a Scholarship with BPP ? Or apply for a student loan ? Or go the TC route ?

The TC route would be best as I'd need to cover living expenses.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Could you clarify what you mean by taking the TC route? Do you just mean obtaining sponsorship?

Unfortunately no one has gone through it yet to be able to advise. The first sitting for SQE1 only happened in November and no one has sat SQE2 yet (won’t be until later this year).

BBP are right - it will be up to you and both routes are feasible. It really depends on many different factors that it’s difficult to give direction to you. The key one is what type of firm you apply to. Many firms will sponsor the GDL, other firms have created SQE courses that are basically a substitute GDL combined with the SQE, and will sponsor you through that. Others won’t though.

However, if you are looking at housing, this is an area where there isn’t a huge amount of money and therefore you may find that not only do you have to self fund the GDL, but you may also need to self fund the SQE too. Some of the firms in that area don’t/didn’t sponsor the LPC, and so comparatively they won’t also sponsor the SQE.

There is no harm in applying for scholarships for the GDL via BPP (or other providers) and via other scholarship providers as a first step though.

 

[SSmith]

Could you clarify what you mean by taking the TC route? Do you just mean obtaining sponsorship?

Unfortunately no one has gone through it yet to be able to advise. The first sitting for SQE1 only happened in November and no one has sat SQE2 yet (won’t be until later this year).

BBP are right - it will be up to you and both routes are feasible. It really depends on many different factors that it’s difficult to give direction to you. The key one is what type of firm you apply to. Many firms will sponsor the GDL, other firms have created SQE courses that are basically a substitute GDL combined with the SQE, and will sponsor you through that. Others won’t though.

However, if you are looking at housing, this is an area where there isn’t a huge amount of money and therefore you may find that not only do you have to self fund the GDL, but you may also need to self fund the SQE too. Some of the firms in that area don’t/didn’t sponsor the LPC, and so comparatively they won’t also sponsor the SQE.

There is no harm in applying for scholarships for the GDL via BPP (or other providers) and via other scholarship providers as a first step though.

Thanks so much for you reply .

Yes, (I think )I mean the Training contract route . So I'm looking at The City Consortium Solicitor Training Program, but i have no idea how or when to apply .
ULaw has recommend I join the MA Law SQE1 course or LLM Legal Practice (SQE1 &2) . I just don't understand how it works , if i include the SE1 or include the SE1&2 in my funding ,when does the employer pay and how do I know what type of funding to apply for ?

I guess what I'm asking is do I apply for a training contract when I'm about to start the SE1 or from the beginning, applying directly to a firm , instead of to a university with the provision that the firm know I am completing a conversion course ?

Yep, unfortunately so , so it looks like ill have to train in something which relates to housing in that respect and maybe volunteer my knowledge when I can at clinics etc.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks so much for you reply .

Yes, (I think )I mean the Training contract route . So I'm looking at The City Consortium Solicitor Training Program, but i have no idea how or when to apply .
ULaw has recommend I join the MA Law SQE1 course or LLM Legal Practice (SQE1 &2) . I just don't understand how it works , if i include the SE1 or include the SE1&2 in my funding ,when does the employer pay and how do I know what type of funding to apply for ?

I guess what I'm asking is do I apply for a training contract when I'm about to start the SE1 or from the beginning, applying directly to a firm , instead of to a university with the provision that the firm know I am completing a conversion course ?

Yep, unfortunately so , so it looks like ill have to train in something which relates to housing in that respect and maybe volunteer my knowledge when I can at clinics etc.

A training contract isn’t necessarily sponsored. It is just a two year commitment from the employer to give you two years’ worth of work experience that will allow you to then qualify.

The City Consortium course is a bespoke course that has been designed for a handful of large commercial law firms. As I understand it, you can’t attend the course unless you have a training contract with one of the firms the course has been designed for.

Unfortunately there are two many variables that means there is not a set approach to sponsorship funding. For some firms will you never get any funding, even retrospectively. On the opposite end of the spectrum some firms will sponsor everything you could possibly need and pay for it directly, meaning you never have to pay a penny. In the middle are a whole range of different approaches, some where firms at the fees upfront, some where they will pay it retrospectively, and some where they

You could apply for training contracts ahead of the SQE if you find firms that will sponsor all aspects of your academic training.

It just sounds like they are unlikely to be firms you are interested in.

Your time to volunteer in clinics will be very limited as a lawyer. There will be some pro bono initiatives run by firms that will give you some exposure to this type of work (although likely to be broader than housing) but it won’t be your day job. Be mindful that in some areas of commercial law, your work could actually be doing everything against what you are looking for (eg building lots of unaffordable housing and gentrification of areas).

 

[SSmith]

Thanks for your reply again .

I think the routes were becoming confusing to me but I get it now .
Yes , you're right , it seems it's a choice between choosing something that's high reward in satisfaction and morality , but low in pay .
or High pay and low morality .

How unfortunate .

Will definitely take your advice on board ! Now to make my decision and apply

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks for your reply again .

I think the routes were becoming confusing to me but I get it now .
Yes , you're right , it seems it's a choice between choosing something that's high reward in satisfaction and morality , but low in pay .
or High pay and low morality .

How unfortunate .

Will definitely take your advice on board ! Now to make my decision and apply

Or get scholarships and choose the career you truly want!

You may also find some firms are willing to take you on pre-SQE and allow you to work while you study. Many firms take on graduate apprentices and provide their training via an apprenticeship. The good thing with the SQE (compared to the LPC) is that you can work before you complete the courses and obtain your qualifying work experience ahead of sitting the SQE assessments.

 

[HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh]

It's probably good to take a while to figure out exactly what you want from a career and what your needs/expectations are, then see how closely they align with the direction you're considering. If charity and social good in the housing area are what really interest you, have you considered roles in charities or housing associations? Or maybe trying to work in local government? There might be more opportunities to actually do the work you want to do here. I don't know your background but I worked in a similar sort of area myself, there are a lot of careers that involve helping people with housing situations that might be worth exploring too?

Have you tried to get a bit of shadowing in the kinds of places you would be working, to see if the realities of working in a high street housing practice actually suit? I suspect the day to day realities of the work will be quite different to what you imagine. It's stressful and not an area that is likely to pay amazingly either, so make sure you really know what you're getting into. It's also likely to be a lot of work that involves dealing with cases swiftly and not necessarily in a way you'll find morally rewarding.

Personally in your situation I would not sign up for courses unless I felt I really knew what I was getting myself into long term. If you could shadow or do some support work for the kind of role that interests you that might also be a good way to see if there are other roles in the legal sector that might work as a stepping stone? Solicitor apprenticeships can be a good idea, maybe paralegal or CILEX too?

Or if it is really law itself that interests you maybe consider broadening your horizons and going all in on getting into a decent firm that will give you the maximum support through your studies? Even if the work you do with them while you train isn't your calling it will give you the necessary backing to be a great lawyer, who could ultimately end up specialising in charity work, in house counsel at a charity, working in a pro bono department, or joining a specialist law firm?

 

[SSmith]

Or get scholarships and choose the career you truly want!

You may also find some firms are willing to take you on pre-SQE and allow you to work while you study. Many firms take on graduate apprentices and provide their training via an apprenticeship. The good thing with the SQE (compared to the LPC) is that you can work before you complete the courses and obtain your qualifying work experience ahead of sitting the SQE assessments.

Will also take an apprenticeship into consideration, thanks . I've spent the night / morning really narrowing down the area of law I'd like to practice and decided to give myself until August before and if I apply to my course.

I have a wealth of experience in Administration, so joining a law firm this way would also be an option .

 

[SSmith]

It's probably good to take a while to figure out exactly what you want from a career and what your needs/expectations are, then see how closely they align with the direction you're considering. If charity and social good in the housing area are what really interest you, have you considered roles in charities or housing associations? Or maybe trying to work in local government? There might be more opportunities to actually do the work you want to do here. I don't know your background but I worked in a similar sort of area myself, there are a lot of careers that involve helping people with housing situations that might be worth exploring too?

Have you tried to get a bit of shadowing in the kinds of places you would be working, to see if the realities of working in a high street housing practice actually suit? I suspect the day to day realities of the work will be quite different to what you imagine. It's stressful and not an area that is likely to pay amazingly either, so make sure you really know what you're getting into. It's also likely to be a lot of work that involves dealing with cases swiftly and not necessarily in a way you'll find morally rewarding.

Personally in your situation I would not sign up for courses unless I felt I really knew what I was getting myself into long term. If you could shadow or do some support work for the kind of role that interests you that might also be a good way to see if there are other roles in the legal sector that might work as a stepping stone? Solicitor apprenticeships can be a good idea, maybe paralegal or CILEX too?

Or if it is really law itself that interests you maybe consider broadening your horizons and going all in on getting into a decent firm that will give you the maximum support through your studies? Even if the work you do with them while you train isn't your calling it will give you the necessary backing to be a great lawyer, who could ultimately end up specialising in charity work, in house counsel at a charity, working in a pro bono department, or joining a specialist law firm?

Thanks so much for your very insightful response.
It has certainly given me food for thought as mentioned I do have a lot of experience in office work as an administrator. I've never felt challenged enough in these roles and although I would be helping people in housing, if , say I was to apply as an administrator in a charity or housing office, I don't feel I'd be living up to my full potential. I definitely want to have the role of a solicitor and I'm set on doing my postgraduate diploma or masters ,that is an important goal for me, academically. I do feel that because of my age and because I've taken time out from working ,I'd need to show the commitment and intention I have to work hard in this field . I've had a few career changes due to not being able to gain employment in my intended field after graduation.

I have looked into an apprenticeship, what is the likelihood of someone my age being offered one ? They seem to be geared towards school or college leavers .

Your last paragraph is the route I'd like to take ,it's going to have to be a combination of both work for experience and showing the commitment to a postgraduate course to enable me to become an outstanding candidate.

Not to sound pessimistic, but as a non law grad, with a gap of 10 years since my BSc , I doubt a law firm would take me as is and train me up without demonstrating some solid commitment and passion for law?

Are you both saying I could just apply straight to law firms for sponsorship without gaining at least my PGDL ?
Would I be better off doing a Vacation Scheme first ?

I feel like I'd be setting myself up for rejection from the start.

 

[Kubed]

Thanks so much for your very insightful response.
It has certainly given me food for thought as mentioned I do have a lot of experience in office work as an administrator. I've never felt challenged enough in these roles and although I would be helping people in housing, if , say I was to apply as an administrator in a charity or housing office, I don't feel I'd be living up to my full potential. I definitely want to have the role of a solicitor and I'm set on doing my postgraduate diploma or masters ,that is an important goal for me, academically. I do feel that because of my age and because I've taken time out from working ,I'd need to show the commitment and intention I have to work hard in this field . I've had a few career changes due to not being able to gain employment in my intended field after graduation.

I have looked into an apprenticeship, what is the likelihood of someone my age being offered one ? They seem to be geared towards school or college leavers .

Your last paragraph is the route I'd like to take ,it's going to have to be a combination of both work for experience and showing the commitment to a postgraduate course to enable me to become an outstanding candidate.

Not to sound pessimistic, but as a non law grad, with a gap of 10 years since my BSc , I doubt a law firm would take me as is and train me up without demonstrating some solid commitment and passion for law?

Are you both saying I could just apply straight to law firms for sponsorship without gaining at least my PGDL ?
Would I be better off doing a Vacation Scheme first ?

I feel like I'd be setting myself up for rejection from the start.

Just to follow up on the bit in italics, it's certainly possible for career changers to succeed. I graduated in over 10 years ago and worked since then. I went via the vac scheme route, completed two last summer and got TC offers after those. There are some firms that value career changers and others that focus more heavily on recent grads so you should make applications strategically.

You do of course have to demonstrate a significant level of commitment to a legal career but I found that the my biggest draw was the wealth of experiences I had on my CV. I supplemented those experiences by completing a part-time GDL, taking part in pro bono and demonstrating a strong level of commercial awareness.

To be honest, half the battle is being able to operate in a professional work setting and that's a real advantage we have as career changers. Alongside that, if you're able to craft a coherent narrative around why you want to train to be a lawyer (and work at a particular firm), I see being a career changer as significantly advantageous.

 

[SSmith]

Just to follow up on the bit in italics, it's certainly possible for career changers to succeed. I graduated in 2011 and have since been a teacher. I went via the vac scheme route, completed two last summer and got TC offers after those. There are some firms that value career changers and others that focus more heavily on recent grads so you should make applications strategically.

You do of course have to demonstrate a significant level of commitment to a legal career but I found that the my biggest draw was the wealth of experiences I had on my CV. I supplemented those experiences by completing a part-time GDL, taking part in pro bono and demonstrating a strong level of commercial awareness.

To be honest, half the battle is being able to operate in a professional work setting and that's a real advantage we have as career changers. Alongside that, if you're able to craft a coherent narrative around why you want to train to be a lawyer (and work at a particular firm), I see being a career changer as significantly advantageous.

This is just the encouragement I needed , thanks so much!

I think the route you have taken sounds very similar to what I'd like to do , in fact my last job outside of becoming self employed 3 years ago, was also in teaching.

Are there any resources you found helpful as a guide for applying to Vac schemes ?

You're very right , we do have an advantage over those who are fresh out of university. I think my way of explaining why I've decided to change careers will be that I have never felt challenged or secure enough ( particularly during the hell of the last 2 years , being self employed) in any of the employment paths I've had .

 

[Kubed]

This is just the encouragement I needed , thanks so much!

I think the route you have taken sounds very similar to what I'd like to do , in fact my last job outside of becoming self employed 3 years ago, was also in teaching.

Are there any resources you found helpful as a guide for applying to Vac schemes ?

You're very right , we do have an advantage over those who are fresh out of university. I think my way of explaining why I've decided to change careers will be that I have never felt challenged or secure enough ( particularly during the hell of the last 2 years , being self employed) in any of the employment paths I've had .

In terms of resources, I used several but the main ones:

- Legal Cheek (firm reviews & descriptions, weekly online events were really insightful and easy to sign up to, online summer vacation scheme for networking)
- Chambers Student (firm descriptions)
- Chambers/Legal 500 firm rankings
- Aspiring Solicitors (if you're from an under-represented background) - they have a wide range of programmes and schemes available
- Forage online work experience programmes - gained lots of in-depth knowledge of various different practice areas and law firms
- Bright Network legal summer internship - good for building knowledge and network, easy to apply to
- Watson's Daily for developing commercial awareness
- TCLA! If you're able to sign-up to the premium version, the courses are invaluable

 

[SSmith]

In terms of resources, I used several but the main ones:

- Legal Cheek (firm reviews & descriptions, weekly online events were really insightful and easy to sign up to, online summer vacation scheme for networking)
- Chambers Student (firm descriptions)
- Chambers/Legal 500 firm rankings
- Aspiring Solicitors (if you're from an under-represented background) - they have a wide range of programmes and schemes available
- Forage online work experience programmes - gained lots of in-depth knowledge of various different practice areas and law firms
- Bright Network legal summer internship - good for building knowledge and network, easy to apply to
- Watson's Daily for developing commercial awareness
- TCLA! If you're able to sign-up to the premium version, the courses are invaluable

Oh you're a star, thanks so much !

 

[Alison C]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, and I apologise for the length but...I'm wondering if anyone has any guidance or experience of going through the Non Law SQE route ?

I'm what would be considered a "mature student " . At 35 ,I already have a 2:1 in an unrelated degree and I've been putting off doing the conversion course for years . I'd like to go the route of applying for a training contract.
I'm wondering if I need to just do my GDL ( BPP) and then apply for a TC or the GDL which includes SQE1 prep ( BPP) and THEN apply .I've tried to ask BPP and they've just advised it's up to me ,which doesn't help !

I ask because it's my understanding that the firm will fund the rest ( SQE 1 and 2) after my GDL is achieved?

I'm so confused 😕

A bit of background:

Over the years , due to amassing a great deal of self taught knowledge of the law I've won two of my own housing court cases .
I have constantly been encouraged by solicitors and even a detective in a family member's case to practice law .

I'm already jokingly known as the go to "lawyer" for family members ,friends and neighbours who don't know their rights and I throughly enjoy it . I'm thinking it's time I make it official haha

But honestly, what has put me off is wondering if I'd be able to handle the stress as someone who has anxiety and depression.

My goal is to become a housing solicitor helping those who have gone through the types of issues I have with housing . But I now know firms like this don't usually sponsor trainees . I know I'd be better off being trained by a firm that practices conveyancing or estates.

Should I try and apply for a Scholarship with BPP ? Or apply for a student loan ? Or go the TC route ?

The TC route would be best as I'd need to cover living expenses.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I am a non-law grad career changer. I did the GDL and it's enabled me to work as a paralegal, though honestly, I feel I could have done the work without the qualification (I just wouldn't have been offered it). My point is that with a solid career behind you, the transition won't be as tricky as it might have been had you not had that experience.

It's really important to look at what is best for your particular needs. I am relatively academic and while I did consider CILEX, it didn't appeal when I was looking at how the change would work for me. I felt I needed to move on more quickly and kick start my change. When I started my GDL, the SQE was a mere whisper that people (ie U Law tutors) were hoping would retreat.

I have a background in education and am not (yet) convinced that the SQE will be ironed out for some time. I have seen much educational change in my career and recognise that radical shifts take a while to filter through the system, by which point any damage has already been done. In the longer term, no one yet knows what kind of solicitors it will turn out and whether the skills base will be effective. The profession is competitive enough without that issue holding up the very people this was supposed to enable - ie those who don't have the access (to sought-after TCs and funded studying) that privilege brings. Based on wanting to be the best solicitor you can be, CILEX has high standards already in place. Given that CILEX is tried and tested, it actually looks like a pretty good bet

I think that many apprenticeships require you to be non-tertiary educated, so you may not be eligible though I did see a video somewhere recently showing an Exeter graduate taking that route (sorry can't remember which firm - possibly Ashurst??). I could be wrong, and maybe this will change in the future, but apprenticeships still have a slight reputation of being something for those who couldn't, or didn't, access university.

If you already know that your mental health is something you need to be more forgiving toward, flexibility and a longer route, while earning, sounds a really good solution. I think I had a chat with Freeths when I was looking at the CILEX route, and they are a really supportive and diverse firm that may do work in the areas that interest you. There are bound to be others.

Other resources not mentioned above (I agree with all those, and you've found TCLA - hoorah) that I've dipped into include:
- Jake Schogger's Commercial Law Academy (which is more Sainsbury's than Waitrose; some really great materials and free webinars),
- blogs such as Success with Steph, Joe Mallet, Little Law, Strive, Let's Chat Law;
- podcasts such as BBC Business Matters; Wake up to money; FT news briefing; Economist; etc etc
Also before I took the plunge, I spoke with a number of people from the Aspiring Solicitors career changer section - you don't have to be a full member to do that. By the way, Aspiring Solicitors and others such as SEO are great if you happen to be state school educated and/or tick other diversity boxes than being a 'non-traditional' entrant.

Hang on in there, and well done for asking questions that people here like to answer!

 

[SSmith]

I am a non-law grad career changer. I did the GDL and it's enabled me to work as a paralegal, though honestly, I feel I could have done the work without the qualification (I just wouldn't have been offered it). My point is that with a solid career behind you, the transition won't be as tricky as it might have been had you not had that experience.

It's really important to look at what is best for your particular needs. I am relatively academic and while I did consider CILEX, it didn't appeal when I was looking at how the change would work for me. I felt I needed to move on more quickly and kick start my change. When I started my GDL, the SQE was a mere whisper that people (ie U Law tutors) were hoping would retreat.

I have a background in education and am not (yet) convinced that the SQE will be ironed out for some time. I have seen much educational change in my career and recognise that radical shifts take a while to filter through the system, by which point any damage has already been done. In the longer term, no one yet knows what kind of solicitors it will turn out and whether the skills base will be effective. The profession is competitive enough without that issue holding up the very people this was supposed to enable - ie those who don't have the access (to sought-after TCs and funded studying) that privilege brings. Based on wanting to be the best solicitor you can be, CILEX has high standards already in place. Given that CILEX is tried and tested, it actually looks like a pretty good bet

I think that many apprenticeships require you to be non-tertiary educated, so you may not be eligible though I did see a video somewhere recently showing an Exeter graduate taking that route (sorry can't remember which firm - possibly Ashurst??). I could be wrong, and maybe this will change in the future, but apprenticeships still have a slight reputation of being something for those who couldn't, or didn't, access university.

If you already know that your mental health is something you need to be more forgiving toward, flexibility and a longer route, while earning, sounds a really good solution. I think I had a chat with Freeths when I was looking at the CILEX route, and they are a really supportive and diverse firm that may do work in the areas that interest you. There are bound to be others.

Other resources not mentioned above (I agree with all those, and you've found TCLA - hoorah) that I've dipped into include:
- Jake Schogger's Commercial Law Academy (which is more Sainsbury's than Waitrose; some really great materials and free webinars),
- blogs such as Success with Steph, Joe Mallet, Little Law, Strive, Let's Chat Law;
- podcasts such as BBC Business Matters; Wake up to money; FT news briefing; Economist; etc etc
Also before I took the plunge, I spoke with a number of people from the Aspiring Solicitors career changer section - you don't have to be a full member to do that. By the way, Aspiring Solicitors and others such as SEO are great if you happen to be state school educated and/or tick other diversity boxes than being a 'non-traditional' entrant.

Hang on in there, and well done for asking questions that people here like to answer!

Thank you so much for your helpful and very detailed reply.

The last couple of days has flipped the idea of the route I thought I was going to take on its head. After my first post I found out BPPs reputation isn't that good and got swayed to enquire about Ulaw. I spoke to them as per my next post and decided against the PGDL because there isn't funding for it. I decided I'd do the MA Law SQE1 course and then I found out its not well regarded or even considered a real masters !😩

So now I'm looking into the 1year PDip/2yr MSc at King's College for non law grads .
If anything, I think it'd help distract from me having gone to London Met. I'm also pretty academic, so I'd enjoy the study of law as much as the practical aspect of it.
And yup, I'd be doing it for the same reason as you did your GDL, to show my commitment and interest in law to prospective employers for paralegal roles.

But you're right, I have been keeping the idea of the CILEX route in the back of my mind. It may well be easier on my MH and would suit me best as my past work experience is admin and corporate sales.Plus being able to work at thr sane time.
It's the finding the funding really. But I could get an Advanced Learner Loan to cover it .

Yes, I'm honestly not seeing much faith in the SQE so far and the pass rates being so low isn't helping either.

Freeths sound great! I'll look into contacting them. Thanks !
You're awesome ,these are some brilliant resources , I've signed up to Aspiring Solicitors and SEO.

I always feel so encouraged and inspired when I ask questions in here.

Thanks again !