Introduction to LawTech

[Jaysen]

Hey Jonty,

Good to see you on here. I'm very interested in this area and your thoughts. The bigger UK firms (and some US firms) appear to be racing to adopt new technologies/AI.

Let's take three of the magic circle:

A&O

• Built its own tech incubator, Fuse
• Made an equity investment in Nivaura, the first company to join Fuse
• One of its lawyers built MarginMatrix to handle derivatives compliance
• It backed the Legal Innovation Centre at Ulster University which will train students on legal tech.

Clifford Chance

• 400 lawyers are involved in its new tech group
• Invested in Kira Systems for doc review/due diligence
• Worked with Neota Logic for derivatives regulation and MiFID II
• CC Dr@ft allows in-house clients to build their own contracts.

Linklaters

• Launched its own tech software, LinkRFI, to handle bank rinfencing reforms
• Developed its own AI platform, Nakhoda, which is involved in DD.
• Trialled AI software including Kira Systems and RAVN (I think they're competitors?).

Seems like they're taking it seriously.

What kind of posts did you have in mind?

 

[aaron22]

I am very interested too!

 

[Jonty]

I thought it may be helpful to have LawTech resources placed in one thread.

People can use this thread to post any interesting websites/podcasts/books/articles etc that they come across that they feel may be of interest to others.

Websites

The Artificial Lawyer - A news blog ran by Richard Tromans - a well known legal management consultant - who writes about news and development in the sector.

LegalGeek - Founded by Jimmy Vestbirk and Helen Gazzi - LawTech focused events are what they organise and they're turning into some of the biggest around. Their first event a few years ago had a capacity of a few hundred. Last year this was upped to a thousand and their event this year (in October) is aimed at two thousand. I'd highly recommend following them on MeetUp to stay abreast of their new events as they are typically well-attended and informative LawTech focused events. Also on their website is a startup map which gives you an idea of what companies are out there.

Legal IT Insider - A great resource filled with news and updates about technology within Law. This website covers all forms of tech, not just LawTech, so can be a bit news dense but a great resource nonetheless ran by Caroline Hill (a writer who has always had a focus on legal journalism) and Charles Christian (an ex-barrister, now journalist focused on LawTech matters).

Every person I've mentioned above is also well worth a follow on twitter.

Books

Richard Susskind - Tomorrow's Lawyers: An Introduction To Your Future - Susskind currently acts as the IT advisor to the Lord Chief Justice and has been writing books surrounding Legal IT for over 30 years and is widely respected within the industry. The Future Lawyer deals with predictions on the future of the legal industry and, whilst some of his predictions may seem a bit outlandish, it's all well worth a read if you harbor any genuine intent to practice law.

Richard & Daniel Susskind - The Future Of The Professions: How Technology Will Transform The Work Of Human Experts - More wide-ranging than the previous book, this book focuses on the specific and general criticisms facing several different professions (inc. Health, Education, Divinity, Law, Journalism, Management Consulting, Tax and Architecture) before making two sets of predictions for the future of each (one conservative, one more creative).

Chrissie Lightfoot - Tomorrow's Naked Lawyer - I've not been able to get hold of a copy of this book yet but it is, by all accounts, a further excellent guide into the present and possible future of the legal world.

Podcasts

A tougher category to fill. There seems to be a number of good one-off episodes from technology podcasts but there is a harder time finding regular UK-focused LawTech podcasts.

Lawyers of Tomorrow - Stephen Turner, an ex-law lecturer, has founded a company called Lawyers of Tomorrow and also produces a podcast with the same name (which includes recent interviews with Richard Tromans).

Law Technology Now - An American focused podcast that still has interesting subject matter. Whilst not 100% relevant sometimes, don't forget that a lot of the bigger LawTech companies around today in the UK began life in USA.

I actually have an interest in creating a podcast in this area - discussing news and featuring interviews from start-up leaders/law firm techies - and am gathering a group together to help me with it so, hopefully, in the near future we'll have something up!

Events & Apps

MeetUp - A great mobile app (and website) that updates you on events happening in your area. You can select interests and it'll update you with relevant events matching that. I'd recommend, if you have interest in LawTech events, to download and follow certain keywords/groups on there (e.g. LegalGeek).

Hackathons - Legal hackathons are starting to become more popular. A few weeks ago there was a major worldwide hackathon that took place in over 40 cities (including Buenos Aires, Sydney, Melbourne, Toronto, Montreal, London, New York, LA, San Francisco, Dubai, Madrid to name but a few) across 6 continents. The London leg was won by a team from Pinsent Masons (who also hosted it...). It was open to all (law students, lawyers, developers etc) and was a popular event. They seem a great way of meeting like-minded people and networking with those with a similar interest.

 

[Jaysen]

I thought it may be helpful to have LawTech resources placed in one thread.

People can use this thread to post any interesting websites/podcasts/books/articles etc that they come across that they feel may be of interest to others.

Websites

The Artificial Lawyer - A news blog ran by Richard Tromans - a well known legal management consultant - who writes about news and development in the sector.

LegalGeek - Founded by Jimmy Vestbirk and Helen Gazzi - LawTech focused events are what they organise and they're turning into some of the biggest around. Their first event a few years ago had a capacity of a few hundred. Last year this was upped to a thousand and their event this year (in October) is aimed at two thousand. I'd highly recommend following them on MeetUp to stay abreast of their new events as they are typically well-attended and informative LawTech focused events. Also on their website is a startup map which gives you an idea of what companies are out there.

Legal IT Insider - A great resource filled with news and updates about technology within Law. This website covers all forms of tech, not just LawTech, so can be a bit news dense but a great resource nonetheless ran by Caroline Hill (a writer who has always had a focus on legal journalism) and Charles Christian (an ex-barrister, now journalist focused on LawTech matters).

Every person I've mentioned above is also well worth a follow on twitter.

Books

Richard Susskind - Tomorrow's Lawyers: An Introduction To Your Future - Susskind currently acts as the IT advisor to the Lord Chief Justice and has been writing books surrounding Legal IT for over 30 years and is widely respected within the industry. The Future Lawyer deals with predictions on the future of the legal industry and, whilst some of his predictions may seem a bit outlandish, it's all well worth a read if you harbor any genuine intent to practice law.

Richard & Daniel Susskind - The Future Of The Professions: How Technology Will Transform The Work Of Human Experts - More wide-ranging than the previous book, this book focuses on the specific and general criticisms facing several different professions (inc. Health, Education, Divinity, Law, Journalism, Management Consulting, Tax and Architecture) before making two sets of predictions for the future of each (one conservative, one more creative).

Chrissie Lightfoot - Tomorrow's Naked Lawyer - I've not been able to get hold of a copy of this book yet but it is, by all accounts, a further excellent guide into the present and possible future of the legal world.

Podcasts

A tougher category to fill. There seems to be a number of good one-off episodes from technology podcasts but there is a harder time finding regular UK-focused LawTech podcasts.

Lawyers of Tomorrow - Stephen Turner, an ex-law lecturer, has founded a company called Lawyers of Tomorrow and also produces a podcast with the same name (which includes recent interviews with Richard Tromans).

Law Technology Now - An American focused podcast that still has interesting subject matter. Whilst not 100% relevant sometimes, don't forget that a lot of the bigger LawTech companies around today in the UK began life in USA.

I actually have an interest in creating a podcast in this area - discussing news and featuring interviews from start-up leaders/law firm techies - and am gathering a group together to help me with it so, hopefully, in the near future we'll have something up!

Events & Apps

MeetUp - A great mobile app (and website) that updates you on events happening in your area. You can select interests and it'll update you with relevant events matching that. I'd recommend, if you have interest in LawTech events, to download and follow certain keywords/groups on there (e.g. LegalGeek).

Hackathons - Legal hackathons are starting to become more popular. A few weeks ago there was a major worldwide hackathon that took place in over 40 cities (including Buenos Aires, Sydney, Melbourne, Toronto, Montreal, London, New York, LA, San Francisco, Dubai, Madrid to name but a few) across 6 continents. The London leg was won by a team from Pinsent Masons (who also hosted it...). It was open to all (law students, lawyers, developers etc) and was a popular event. They seem a great way of meeting like-minded people and networking with those with a similar interest.

Wow - Stephen Turner taught me during the LPC. I had no idea he did a podcast!

 

[JoshMason]

I thought it may be helpful to have LawTech resources placed in one thread.

People can use this thread to post any interesting websites/podcasts/books/articles etc that they come across that they feel may be of interest to others.

Websites

The Artificial Lawyer - A news blog ran by Richard Tromans - a well known legal management consultant - who writes about news and development in the sector.

LegalGeek - Founded by Jimmy Vestbirk and Helen Gazzi - LawTech focused events are what they organise and they're turning into some of the biggest around. Their first event a few years ago had a capacity of a few hundred. Last year this was upped to a thousand and their event this year (in October) is aimed at two thousand. I'd highly recommend following them on MeetUp to stay abreast of their new events as they are typically well-attended and informative LawTech focused events. Also on their website is a startup map which gives you an idea of what companies are out there.

Legal IT Insider - A great resource filled with news and updates about technology within Law. This website covers all forms of tech, not just LawTech, so can be a bit news dense but a great resource nonetheless ran by Caroline Hill (a writer who has always had a focus on legal journalism) and Charles Christian (an ex-barrister, now journalist focused on LawTech matters).

Every person I've mentioned above is also well worth a follow on twitter.

Books

Richard Susskind - Tomorrow's Lawyers: An Introduction To Your Future - Susskind currently acts as the IT advisor to the Lord Chief Justice and has been writing books surrounding Legal IT for over 30 years and is widely respected within the industry. The Future Lawyer deals with predictions on the future of the legal industry and, whilst some of his predictions may seem a bit outlandish, it's all well worth a read if you harbor any genuine intent to practice law.

Richard & Daniel Susskind - The Future Of The Professions: How Technology Will Transform The Work Of Human Experts - More wide-ranging than the previous book, this book focuses on the specific and general criticisms facing several different professions (inc. Health, Education, Divinity, Law, Journalism, Management Consulting, Tax and Architecture) before making two sets of predictions for the future of each (one conservative, one more creative).

Chrissie Lightfoot - Tomorrow's Naked Lawyer - I've not been able to get hold of a copy of this book yet but it is, by all accounts, a further excellent guide into the present and possible future of the legal world.

Podcasts

A tougher category to fill. There seems to be a number of good one-off episodes from technology podcasts but there is a harder time finding regular UK-focused LawTech podcasts.

Lawyers of Tomorrow - Stephen Turner, an ex-law lecturer, has founded a company called Lawyers of Tomorrow and also produces a podcast with the same name (which includes recent interviews with Richard Tromans).

Law Technology Now - An American focused podcast that still has interesting subject matter. Whilst not 100% relevant sometimes, don't forget that a lot of the bigger LawTech companies around today in the UK began life in USA.

I actually have an interest in creating a podcast in this area - discussing news and featuring interviews from start-up leaders/law firm techies - and am gathering a group together to help me with it so, hopefully, in the near future we'll have something up!

Events & Apps

MeetUp - A great mobile app (and website) that updates you on events happening in your area. You can select interests and it'll update you with relevant events matching that. I'd recommend, if you have interest in LawTech events, to download and follow certain keywords/groups on there (e.g. LegalGeek).

Hackathons - Legal hackathons are starting to become more popular. A few weeks ago there was a major worldwide hackathon that took place in over 40 cities (including Buenos Aires, Sydney, Melbourne, Toronto, Montreal, London, New York, LA, San Francisco, Dubai, Madrid to name but a few) across 6 continents. The London leg was won by a team from Pinsent Masons (who also hosted it...). It was open to all (law students, lawyers, developers etc) and was a popular event. They seem a great way of meeting like-minded people and networking with those with a similar interest.

Hi! What got you interested in law tech in the first place?

 

[Sofia]

I thought it may be helpful to have LawTech resources placed in one thread.

People can use this thread to post any interesting websites/podcasts/books/articles etc that they come across that they feel may be of interest to others.

Websites

The Artificial Lawyer - A news blog ran by Richard Tromans - a well known legal management consultant - who writes about news and development in the sector.

LegalGeek - Founded by Jimmy Vestbirk and Helen Gazzi - LawTech focused events are what they organise and they're turning into some of the biggest around. Their first event a few years ago had a capacity of a few hundred. Last year this was upped to a thousand and their event this year (in October) is aimed at two thousand. I'd highly recommend following them on MeetUp to stay abreast of their new events as they are typically well-attended and informative LawTech focused events. Also on their website is a startup map which gives you an idea of what companies are out there.

Legal IT Insider - A great resource filled with news and updates about technology within Law. This website covers all forms of tech, not just LawTech, so can be a bit news dense but a great resource nonetheless ran by Caroline Hill (a writer who has always had a focus on legal journalism) and Charles Christian (an ex-barrister, now journalist focused on LawTech matters).

Every person I've mentioned above is also well worth a follow on twitter.

Books

Richard Susskind - Tomorrow's Lawyers: An Introduction To Your Future - Susskind currently acts as the IT advisor to the Lord Chief Justice and has been writing books surrounding Legal IT for over 30 years and is widely respected within the industry. The Future Lawyer deals with predictions on the future of the legal industry and, whilst some of his predictions may seem a bit outlandish, it's all well worth a read if you harbor any genuine intent to practice law.

Richard & Daniel Susskind - The Future Of The Professions: How Technology Will Transform The Work Of Human Experts - More wide-ranging than the previous book, this book focuses on the specific and general criticisms facing several different professions (inc. Health, Education, Divinity, Law, Journalism, Management Consulting, Tax and Architecture) before making two sets of predictions for the future of each (one conservative, one more creative).

Chrissie Lightfoot - Tomorrow's Naked Lawyer - I've not been able to get hold of a copy of this book yet but it is, by all accounts, a further excellent guide into the present and possible future of the legal world.

Podcasts

A tougher category to fill. There seems to be a number of good one-off episodes from technology podcasts but there is a harder time finding regular UK-focused LawTech podcasts.

Lawyers of Tomorrow - Stephen Turner, an ex-law lecturer, has founded a company called Lawyers of Tomorrow and also produces a podcast with the same name (which includes recent interviews with Richard Tromans).

Law Technology Now - An American focused podcast that still has interesting subject matter. Whilst not 100% relevant sometimes, don't forget that a lot of the bigger LawTech companies around today in the UK began life in USA.

I actually have an interest in creating a podcast in this area - discussing news and featuring interviews from start-up leaders/law firm techies - and am gathering a group together to help me with it so, hopefully, in the near future we'll have something up!

Events & Apps

MeetUp - A great mobile app (and website) that updates you on events happening in your area. You can select interests and it'll update you with relevant events matching that. I'd recommend, if you have interest in LawTech events, to download and follow certain keywords/groups on there (e.g. LegalGeek).

Hackathons - Legal hackathons are starting to become more popular. A few weeks ago there was a major worldwide hackathon that took place in over 40 cities (including Buenos Aires, Sydney, Melbourne, Toronto, Montreal, London, New York, LA, San Francisco, Dubai, Madrid to name but a few) across 6 continents. The London leg was won by a team from Pinsent Masons (who also hosted it...). It was open to all (law students, lawyers, developers etc) and was a popular event. They seem a great way of meeting like-minded people and networking with those with a similar interest.

Hey Jonty, thanks so much for writing this up. I especially like the Legal Geek website, I'd love to go to their conference next time. What do you think would be a good place to start out of these resources? Also do you have any experience in coding yourself?

PS: let us know about your podcast

 

[Jonty]

Hi! What got you interested in law tech in the first place?

I'm really interested in emerging technology as a wider topic. Find the entire area (Big Data, ML, AI etc) really fascinating and reading/thinking/talking about its developments is a particular passion for me. LawTech, given I'm in the final few months of an LL.B, seems to be a natural marriage of interests/knowledge for me and so for a while now I've been interested in keeping up-to-date with the developments in LawTech.

The issue for me is it's an industry in its infancy - the type of work I'd like to do doesn't overall exist at my junior level yet as my career aim is to eventually work in strategy consulting, potentially for law firms with regards to technology adoption.

For now I'm merely looking at moving into IT (pref. emerging tech in some way) consulting, from a business point of view rather than tech, and learning the relevant skill-sets (i.e. business analysis) with no particular preference on what industries I work within with an eventual aim of returning to the LawTech world. That's one of the reasons I'm looking at doing a podcast, to keep me up-to-date (and relevant) in LawTech whilst I'm working in other areas.

 

[Jonty]

Hey Jonty, thanks so much for writing this up. I especially like the Legal Geek website, I'd love to go to their conference next time. What do you think would be a good place to start out of these resources? Also do you have any experience in coding yourself?

PS: let us know about your podcast

Hey, good to know it's useful! Yeah, the Legal Geek website is great but is a bit news-shy, which is where the other two come in. Legal Geek do have a massive conference in October (I think) but also run smaller events too. There's one at the end of March that they're running with ThoughtRiver to demo their contract analysis software which could be useful for people to attend.

From the coding side of things, I must admit that I'm not a programmer or coder etc. I know some from my Computing A level, and like to think I'm pretty decent from a layman tech p.o.v, but I've just started to learn a new basic programming language course recently because I don't know enough.

Udacity run a number of free-courses via their website and there's also a mobile app called SoloLearn which will help you learn the basics. In reality, you won't need to be a techie to use or work in LawTech, however it could be helpful, if you have time to do it, to help you communicate more effectively with those who do work within LawTech.

 

[JoshMason]

I'm really interested in emerging technology as a wider topic. Find the entire area (Big Data, ML, AI etc) really fascinating and reading/thinking/talking about its developments is a particular passion for me. LawTech, given I'm in the final few months of an LL.B, seems to be a natural marriage of interests/knowledge for me and so for a while now I've been interested in keeping up-to-date with the developments in LawTech.

The issue for me is it's an industry in its infancy - the type of work I'd like to do doesn't overall exist at my junior level yet as my career aim is to eventually work in strategy consulting, potentially for law firms with regards to technology adoption.

For now I'm merely looking at moving into IT (pref. emerging tech in some way) consulting, from a business point of view rather than tech, and learning the relevant skill-sets (i.e. business analysis) with no particular preference on what industries I work within with an eventual aim of returning to the LawTech world. That's one of the reasons I'm looking at doing a podcast, to keep me up-to-date (and relevant) in LawTech whilst I'm working in other areas.

I see. I think that sounds like a good thing tbh, if you start working on it now in a few years it'll be much less in its infancy. Out of interest, why would you go for consulting instead of tech e.g. heading to Google to learn the technical skills? I assume it's because you prefer to do the business side of things?

Also this was quite interesting if you haven't seen it before: https://www.legalgeek.co/read/lawyers-code-self-taught-coder/

 

[Jonty]

I see. I think that sounds like a good thing tbh, if you start working on it now in a few years it'll be much less in its infancy. Out of interest, why would you go for consulting instead of tech e.g. heading to Google to learn the technical skills? I assume it's because you prefer to do the business side of things?

Also this was quite interesting if you haven't seen it before: https://www.legalgeek.co/read/lawyers-code-self-taught-coder/

Yeah that is pretty interesting! As I said above, unless you really want to develop your own app/software, lawyers learning how to code isn't that necessary. However, if you feel like you have the time and motivation to do so, I don't see how it could hurt!

From a personal side, I'm not overly interested in learning the tech side. I've done coding in the past and it really isn't the kind of thing I enjoy, I have friends who are developers and enjoy it and my brother uses a lot of data models he develops himself for his work within environmental science.

The business side is where I'm interested; analysis and implementation of strategy ideally as a management consultant. But to get there seems to be a long path unless I can get into one of the grad schemes (not too dissimilar to getting a TC!).

 

[JoshMason]

Yeah that is pretty interesting! As I said above, unless you really want to develop your own app/software, lawyers learning how to code isn't that necessary. However, if you feel like you have the time and motivation to do so, I don't see how it could hurt!

From a personal side, I'm not overly interested in learning the tech side. I've done coding in the past and it really isn't the kind of thing I enjoy, I have friends who are developers and enjoy it and my brother uses a lot of data models he develops himself for his work within environmental science.

The business side is where I'm interested; analysis and implementation of strategy ideally as a management consultant. But to get there seems to be a long path unless I can get into one of the grad schemes (not too dissimilar to getting a TC!).

Yeah fair enough. The extent of my coding knowledge is an intensive weekend I went to at uni, but the teacher wasn't too good, which made it less fun. So I'm not too sure if I'd like it, it just sounds quite cool haha.

 

[Campbell44]

Well the thinking seems to be that the younger generation are going to be the one to adopt to the technology far more than the older (as you'd expect). So it seems like you can expect to become well-versed in using the software along with the juniors at the firm. So it seems like a relatively new skillset is being expected but it isn't one that should be beyond anyone really nor too difficult really - it's not like you'll need to be a developer to use the software. There's a decent LegalGeek article from two trainees from Herbert Smith Freehills on the subject

I'd say an appreciation of what the technology can do, a willingness to engage with it and learn how to use it and an adaptive mindset will all be major parts of being a trainee in the future. For hopeful trainees, I'd just recommend reading up on what technology firms are implementing.

Thank you. The video with the HSF trainee was interesting, it feels like there may be less need for trainees with the growing use of this software.

 

[Jonty]

Thank you. The video with the HSF trainee was interesting, it feels like there may be less need for trainees with the growing use of this software.

Doubt there will be less need for trainees. Technology is unlikely replace the solicitor, merely make their job more efficient. As a result, will always need trainees to come into the firm. Think you may see a scenario where a trainee's responsibilities change from today but I'd be surprised if you see a drastic change in the number of training contracts out there.

 

[Campbell44]

Doubt there will be less need for trainees. Technology is unlikely replace the solicitor, merely make their job more efficient. As a result, will always need trainees to come into the firm. Think you may see a scenario where a trainee's responsibilities change from today but I'd be surprised if you see a drastic change in the number of training contracts out there.

But assume a machine learning software is able to do a trainee's job at 10x the speed. And maybe in five years time there is software for due diligence and contracts and admin related tasks that trainees do. Would it not mean that the firm will choose to invest more into AI than trainees and therefore need less of them?

 

[Salma]

Good Morning! I came across this, thought I should share - https://www.legalcheek.com/2018/03/...ling-to-leave-the-training-contract-rat-race/

 

[Coralin96]

Good Morning! I came across this, thought I should share - https://www.legalcheek.com/2018/03/...ling-to-leave-the-training-contract-rat-race/

Morning I love this bit from the article:

"One of these is Alistair Wye, a former banking lawyer at Ashurst and Latham & Watkins who is now head of iManage’s presales. After securing a first-class law degree, Wye tells me he felt “committed” to pursuing a career in legal practice. And yet, a combination of “demoralising grunt work” and law’s priesthood-like commitment to ‘the traditional way of doing things’ saw Wye longing for lawtech. “Firms say they want to hire trainees with entrepreneurial spirit, but that spirit is flattened once they get there,” Wye says. “It pushed me out of the legal profession, really.”"

 

[Jaxkw]

Morning I love this bit from the article:

"One of these is Alistair Wye, a former banking lawyer at Ashurst and Latham & Watkins who is now head of iManage’s presales. After securing a first-class law degree, Wye tells me he felt “committed” to pursuing a career in legal practice. And yet, a combination of “demoralising grunt work” and law’s priesthood-like commitment to ‘the traditional way of doing things’ saw Wye longing for lawtech. “Firms say they want to hire trainees with entrepreneurial spirit, but that spirit is flattened once they get there,” Wye says. “It pushed me out of the legal profession, really.”"

Good to know we've got 'demoralising grunt work' to expect!

 

[Campbell44]

Good to know we've got 'demoralising grunt work' to expect!

Yes it seems the lawyer uses quite harsh language to describe the legal profession.

 

[Sofia]

Hey guys this video is very good too: https://l2b.thelawyer.com/webcast-the-future-of-law/ especially starting from 9 minutes 30 seconds onwards. I found it helpful for those questions that ask about the future of the legal profession i.e. the future of the partnership model, technology etc.

 

[Sofia]

Oh sorry I just saw @Sandrou posted this already. Ignore me!