How to chose which firms to apply to?

[Deleted member 2707]

Hi all! I'm starting my applications for the 2020/21 Cycle and I was wondering how everyone chooses their firms. Personally, I look at the culture of the firm, their D&I initiatives as well as their training style/commitment to trainees. I am attracted to a warm, inclusive culture with a more classroom/structured-style training and I value working with individuals from diverse backgrounds. Naturally, these are the main points I use when answering the 'why us' portion of my firm applications. However, I was wondering if it would be wiser to answer the 'why us'/choose firms based on their industry specialities or practice areas- ie: would law firms be more prone to select candidates who have selected them based on such technical interests as opposed to candidates attracted to their culture/training?

Thank you so much!

 

[Jaysen]

Hi all! I'm starting my applications for the 2020/21 Cycle and I was wondering how everyone chooses their firms. Personally, I look at the culture of the firm, their D&I initiatives as well as their training style/commitment to trainees. I am attracted to a warm, inclusive culture with a more classroom/structured-style training and I value working with individuals from diverse backgrounds. Naturally, these are the main points I use when answering the 'why us' portion of my firm applications. However, I was wondering if it would be wiser to answer the 'why us'/choose firms based on their industry specialities or practice areas- ie: would law firms be more prone to select candidates who have selected them based on such technical interests as opposed to candidates attracted to their culture/training?

Thank you so much!

D&I/commitment to trainees sounds good. Points about culture would strike me as quite vague/generic, unless you had met the firm previously or had some specific evidence to back this up. The same applies to the training style; some firms have quite unique training styles (e.g. non-rotational/multi-specialist), so this would only work for me if you had something specific to point to. Otherwise, this could apply to most other firms.

Law firms want to see that you have clear and convincing justification for why you are applying to their firm. If you can then do that through points about culture/training, that's absolutely fine. As I mention above though, you would need to be pointing to something specific. I don't imagine many firms would say they don't have a warm, inclusive culture.

 

[Alice G]

I agree with everything Jaysen has said. It’s a balancing act really between discussing what genuinely attracts you but making sure you root it well in tailored facts and try to avoid the vagueness.
To avoid this myself I met the firms and engaged with them and tried to pick something quite specific about the culture whilst linking it back to me. I also think it’s good to think about specific cultural hallmarks which matter to you- it could be things like mentorship, feedback appraisals or how much your voice can be heard in a firm etc.
I always used to spend a lot of time researching and looking through LinkedIn for more niche aspects to a firm which drew me in- I found this depth of research can help to make you stand out!

I think culture is important but do think it’s best to root it in more substantive policies and elements to a firm to make it more convincing and always remember to relate why this matters to you.

 

[Deleted member 2707]

D&I/commitment to trainees sounds good. Points about culture would strike me as quite vague/generic, unless you had met the firm previously or had some specific evidence to back this up. The same applies to the training style; some firms have quite unique training styles (e.g. non-rotational/multi-specialist), so this would only work for me if you had something specific to point to. Otherwise, this could apply to most other firms.

Law firms want to see that you have clear and convincing justification for why you are applying to their firm. If you can then do that through points about culture/training, that's absolutely fine. As I mention above though, you would need to be pointing to something specific. I don't imagine many firms would say they don't have a warm, inclusive culture.

Thank you Jaysen! I feel as if that was my stumbling block last year- being too generic. I've been doing more research on each firm, really taking the time to look through their website, Chambers Student and LegalCheek. However, I still find it quite difficult. Do you have any tips on how I could do further research to distinguish my answer?

Furthermore, to add on that, my motivations to enter commercial law seem (at least to me) to be quite generic as well. My interest in the field is due to:
1. The fast-paced, challenging nature of the work which fits my go-getter personality.
2. Multi-disciplinary nature of the job- particularly the opportunity to combine my interest in finance with the law.
3. The opportunity to build long-lasting relationships with clients
4. The international aspect and the ability to engage with clients/colleagues all over the world.
Do these seem too flimsy/generic? Thank you!

 

[Deleted member 2707]

I agree with everything Jaysen has said. It’s a balancing act really between discussing what genuinely attracts you but making sure you root it well in tailored facts and try to avoid the vagueness.
To avoid this myself I met the firms and engaged with them and tried to pick something quite specific about the culture whilst linking it back to me. I also think it’s good to think about specific cultural hallmarks which matter to you- it could be things like mentorship, feedback appraisals or how much your voice can be heard in a firm etc.
I always used to spend a lot of time researching and looking through LinkedIn for more niche aspects to a firm which drew me in- I found this depth of research can help to make you stand out!

I think culture is important but do think it’s best to root it in more substantive policies and elements to a firm to make it more convincing and always remember to relate why this matters to you.

Thank you Alice! I did struggle with vagueness as I was putting down 'culture' for all firms even for ones I had not personally engaged with The Linkedin tip is a great idea which I had just started doing Do you have any advice on improving my research to finding more niche aspects of the firm?

Furthermore, with regards to your final point, should I be looking at the firm's ethos, explain why its appealing and link it back to my personal experience and why it appeals to me so much?

 

[Jaysen]

Thank you Jaysen! I feel as if that was my stumbling block last year- being too generic. I've been doing more research on each firm, really taking the time to look through their website, Chambers Student and LegalCheek. However, I still find it quite difficult. Do you have any tips on how I could do further research to distinguish my answer?

Furthermore, to add on that, my motivations to enter commercial law seem (at least to me) to be quite generic as well. My interest in the field is due to:
1. The fast-paced, challenging nature of the work which fits my go-getter personality.

This would be too generic for me. About half of the applications I read mention the 'fast paced, challenging nature of the work'. The other issue is this applies to many other professions.

2. Multi-disciplinary nature of the job- particularly the opportunity to combine my interest in finance with the law.

This is fine. I would try to then back this up with any experience you have.

3. The opportunity to build long-lasting relationships with clients.

Fine as a reason, but you could do this in many other professions. Why commercial law in particular? Do any of your experiences back this up?

4. The international aspect and the ability to engage with clients/colleagues all over the world.

Same comment as above. If you have any prior exposure to international work, this might also be worth referencing.

Do these seem too flimsy/generic? Thank you!

I've added comments in bold.

I'll leave others to comment on the specific sources they use to research firms, just because it has been a while for me!

 

[Keren]

Jumping on this thread

I am struggling with culture too... A firm I am applying for talks about its "genuine unique" culture but I feel most firms say similar things. It is difficult to truly understand the culture without physically talking to people from firms.

If I really wanted to talk about a firm's culture when answering "Why Us?"... would it be sensible to make reference to the firm's value for entrepreneurism and team-work, end of week drinks etc? Would it be far fetched to refer to D&I?!

Another point... as above, I did wonder whether talking about law firms' training programmes would be too general/might not be a strong enough reason. One firm stood out for me because it has a small trainee intake, has soft skill development work shops, a structured training programme in each department and a bi-annual appraisals. I wanted to make reference to this and link it to my experience of working in small teams as a Paralegal and how this benefitted me as I had higher responsibility of work etc etc. However, I feel like this could probably apply to other firms! I also feel like I am just telling a firm what they know already. Could I link in the the firm's MSI Global/UK200Group Membership to make my answer more specific? This appeals to me as a trainee I am originally from Israel/enjoyed cross-border deals as a paralegal/these memberships strengthen the firm etc...

I think I am trying to fit in too many points in my answers... would be grateful for an opinion on this

 

[Jaysen]

Jumping on this thread

I am struggling with culture too... A firm I am applying for talks about its "genuine unique" culture but I feel most firms say similar things. It is difficult to truly understand the culture without physically talking to people from firms.

If I really wanted to talk about a firm's culture when answering "Why Us?"... would it be sensible to make reference to the firm's value for entrepreneurism and team-work, end of week drinks etc? Would it be far fetched to refer to D&I?!

Another point... as above, I did wonder whether talking about law firms' training programmes would be too general/might not be a strong enough reason. One firm stood out for me because it has a small trainee intake, has soft skill development work shops, a structured training programme in each department and a bi-annual appraisals. I wanted to make reference to this and link it to my experience of working in small teams as a Paralegal and how this benefitted me as I had higher responsibility of work etc etc. However, I feel like this could probably apply to other firms! I also feel like I am just telling a firm what they know already. Could I link in the the firm's MSI Global/UK200Group Membership to make my answer more specific? This appeals to me as a trainee I am originally from Israel/enjoyed cross-border deals as a paralegal/these memberships strengthen the firm etc...

I think I am trying to fit in too many points in my answers... would be grateful for an opinion on this

I'd generally only reference a firm's culture if you have met the firm. Otherwise, what you could do is point to other specific points about a firm (e.g. small trainee intake, the ability for trainees to pitch ideas to the firm, reverse-mentoring etc.). These points may influence a firm's culture, but at least we have something more specific to rely on.

I don't really like referencing values either, unless you have something more concrete to back this up. D&I is not far fetched at all; if the firm's efforts in diversity is a genuine reason you are applying to a firm, and you can explain why that's personally important to you, I think it can be very compelling.

The points you referenced about a firm's training programme sound fine to me. It's fine if some of your points will also apply to some other firms; underlying all of this, we just want to show that you've clearly thought about your reasoning, and that's more likely to be the case if it doesn't apply to most other law firms out there. It's also good you're bringing in your experience of working in small teams. Just try to then be very clear about why this is something that's particularly important to you.

If the last point is a genuine reason you are applying and you can back this up with your personal experiences, that sounds great to me.

 

[Camilla]

Just to add to the above, I attended a webinar this summer and someone from grad rec said that you really shouldn't be talking definitively about the culture of a firm because you cannot get a true sense of this from a dinner, event, or even an open day. Perhaps if you have already completed a vac scheme you would be able to speak about culture convincingly.

They said that it's better to talk about the "impression" of the culture that the event/open day gave you, rather than being definitive if/when you want to include culture as one of the reasons that you are applying.

 

[Keren]

I'd generally only reference a firm's culture if you have met the firm. Otherwise, what you could do is point to other specific points about a firm (e.g. small trainee intake, the ability for trainees to pitch ideas to the firm, reverse-mentoring etc.). These points may influence a firm's culture, but at least we have something more specific to rely on.

I don't really like referencing values either, unless you have something more concrete to back this up. D&I is not far fetched at all; if the firm's efforts in diversity is a genuine reason you are applying to a firm, and you can explain why that's personally important to you, I think it can be very compelling.

The points you referenced about a firm's training programme sound fine to me. It's fine if some of your points will also apply to some other firms; underlying all of this, we just want to show that you've clearly thought about your reasoning, and that's more likely to be the case if it doesn't apply to most other law firms out there. It's also good you're bringing in your experience of working in small teams. Just try to then be very clear about why this is something that's particularly important to you.

If the last point is a genuine reason you are applying and you can back this up with your personal experiences, that sounds great to me.

Fab, thank you Jaysen! I was mainly concerned that I was trying to fit in too many points in my reasons, so that's good to hear! So if one of my points focuses on the firm's training programme and I bring in the firm's memberships... it will be okay as long as I link that to my personal experiences and interests.

Final point, when researching the firm's clients... there are sooooo many... do you categorise them according to sectors/ or types e.g. multinational companies etc? Should I be talking about the clients in my TC applications if there isn't a specific question about clients/competitors? For example, when answering "Why Us?", I plan to talk about the reputation of firms in Real Estate and why this appeals to me... I don't want to force information on their clients in this context if it isn't necessary...

 

[TChopeful2021]

Hello. Should one talk about the 'culture' if there are many other reasons for applying to the firm?

I participated in a firm's first-year insight scheme and was really impressed by their 'culture', or at least the impression of the culture. However, I am also really impressed by:

-The strengths of the practice areas I'm particularly interested in.
-Future expansion strategies and their international presence (I tried to avoid being too generic by commenting on why I admire this particular strategy and how my background and skillset could be relevant)
-Past business decisions (what these decisions tell me about the firm and how they align with my own business values).
-Opportunities offered to trainees and the guaranteed seats.

Are these more concrete reasons than the culture of the firm? The word count is only around 250 words so I want pick the strongest reasons even though the culture exhibited by the firm really did heavily influence my decision to apply. Thank you.

 

[IntrepidL]

Hi all! I'm starting my applications for the 2020/21 Cycle and I was wondering how everyone chooses their firms. Personally, I look at the culture of the firm, their D&I initiatives as well as their training style/commitment to trainees. I am attracted to a warm, inclusive culture with a more classroom/structured-style training and I value working with individuals from diverse backgrounds. Naturally, these are the main points I use when answering the 'why us' portion of my firm applications. However, I was wondering if it would be wiser to answer the 'why us'/choose firms based on their industry specialities or practice areas- ie: would law firms be more prone to select candidates who have selected them based on such technical interests as opposed to candidates attracted to their culture/training?

Thank you so much!

Another point about culture. I've talked to a few trainees and members of the graduate recruitment team and I've been told that they normally do not find applicant's statements about the firm's culture to be particularly convincing especially if the applicant has not attended an Open Day or a firm event and has talked to people within the organisation. So, I would 'err' on the side of talking about the firm's culture unless you've interacted with the people at the firm.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi all! I'm starting my applications for the 2020/21 Cycle and I was wondering how everyone chooses their firms. Personally, I look at the culture of the firm, their D&I initiatives as well as their training style/commitment to trainees. I am attracted to a warm, inclusive culture with a more classroom/structured-style training and I value working with individuals from diverse backgrounds. Naturally, these are the main points I use when answering the 'why us' portion of my firm applications. However, I was wondering if it would be wiser to answer the 'why us'/choose firms based on their industry specialities or practice areas- ie: would law firms be more prone to select candidates who have selected them based on such technical interests as opposed to candidates attracted to their culture/training?

Thank you so much!

you need a balance. The diversity and culture aspects are important, but why are you going to like the day job (the responsibilities you will have, the clients you will work with) are also important to cover.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you Jaysen! I feel as if that was my stumbling block last year- being too generic. I've been doing more research on each firm, really taking the time to look through their website, Chambers Student and LegalCheek. However, I still find it quite difficult. Do you have any tips on how I could do further research to distinguish my answer?

Furthermore, to add on that, my motivations to enter commercial law seem (at least to me) to be quite generic as well. My interest in the field is due to:
1. The fast-paced, challenging nature of the work which fits my go-getter personality.
2. Multi-disciplinary nature of the job- particularly the opportunity to combine my interest in finance with the law.
3. The opportunity to build long-lasting relationships with clients
4. The international aspect and the ability to engage with clients/colleagues all over the world.
Do these seem too flimsy/generic? Thank you!

not flimsy or generic but all of these can easily be responded with “so what”. You’ve got to ask yourself

• why are these things important to you
• couldn’t you say the same of other jobs
• Couldn’t you say this about most firms you are applying to

 

[Jessica Booker]

If I really wanted to talk about a firm's culture when answering "Why Us?"... would it be sensible to make reference to the firm's value for entrepreneurism and team-work, end of week drinks etc? Would it be far fetched to refer to D&I?!

It would be sensible if these things are important and relevant to you.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Fab, thank you Jaysen! I was mainly concerned that I was trying to fit in too many points in my reasons, so that's good to hear! So if one of my points focuses on the firm's training programme and I bring in the firm's memberships... it will be okay as long as I link that to my personal experiences and interests.

Final point, when researching the firm's clients... there are sooooo many... do you categorise them according to sectors/ or types e.g. multinational companies etc? Should I be talking about the clients in my TC applications if there isn't a specific question about clients/competitors? For example, when answering "Why Us?", I plan to talk about the reputation of firms in Real Estate and why this appeals to me... I don't want to force information on their clients in this context if it isn't necessary...

Firms themselves usually classify clients into different groups. Specific one off clients rarely work in an application - you could easily never work for them, so explaining the types of work or types of clients is a safer bet. Again though, this is more about you and your motivations than it is about them.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hello. Should one talk about the 'culture' if there are many other reasons for applying to the firm?

I participated in a firm's first-year insight scheme and was really impressed by their 'culture', or at least the impression of the culture. However, I am also really impressed by:

-The strengths of the practice areas I'm particularly interested in.
-Future expansion strategies and their international presence (I tried to avoid being too generic by commenting on why I admire this particular strategy and how my background and skillset could be relevant)
-Past business decisions (what these decisions tell me about the firm and how they align with my own business values).
-Opportunities offered to trainees and the guaranteed seats.

Are these more concrete reasons than the culture of the firm? The word count is only around 250 words so I want pick the strongest reasons even though the culture exhibited by the firm really did heavily influence my decision to apply. Thank you.

the more “concrete” reasons are specific to you. They are your reasons not someone else’s - so for one person the concrete reason will for the next be flimsy.

 

[Deleted member 2707]

I've added comments in bold.

I'll leave others to comment on the specific sources they use to research firms, just because it has been a while for me!

Thank you Jaysen. Very informative and insightful!

 

[Deleted member 2707]

not flimsy or generic but all of these can easily be responded with “so what”. You’ve got to ask yourself

• why are these things important to you
• couldn’t you say the same of other jobs
• Couldn’t you say this about most firms you are applying to

Thank you Jessica! It is assuring to know that, at least if I am able to link to my background/personality, that it would not be considered too generic!

 

[Deleted member 2707]

Another point about culture. I've talked to a few trainees and members of the graduate recruitment team and I've been told that they normally do not find applicant's statements about the firm's culture to be particularly convincing especially if the applicant has not attended an Open Day or a firm event and has talked to people within the organisation. So, I would 'err' on the side of talking about the firm's culture unless you've interacted with the people at the firm.

Thank you so much for this! I have only talked about culture in applications where I have met individuals from the firm. Adding on to this though, would meeting them at a more casual event, for example, a Law Fair, be sufficient? And following this advice, it would therefore be imperative to mention that we have met them in our application?