GDL/LPC or SQE advice

[Dublinwolf95]

Hi everyone,

I know there have been lots of similar threads already but I've been scratching my head about this decision for a while.

I'm an LLM grad with no undergrad law degree. I work full-time in a non-law job, and the type of law I want to get in to is immigration/public/family/criminal/legal aid - i.e. the types of law that you would need to self-fund your studies to work in. My two options as I see it are:
1. Begin the GDL part-time in September 2021, finish September 2023. Try to fund it so that I can do the LPC full time and finish September 2024
2. Begin part-time SQE prep course in July 2021 and take it from there.
Because I'm working full time, any study I do will need to be part-time, but with the advent of the SQE it's just insanely difficult to tell which route to go down is better for me. I've been in contact with a few firms who have said they haven't made decisions on how they will recruit in 2024 onwards. Would anyone have any advice? And in my particular situation, is doing the GDL part-time and finishing the LPC in 2024 (potentially even 2025 if I don't save enough) even viable?

 

[Dublinwolf95]

@Jessica Booker I'm sure you've been asked for your input a million times for this exact type of question, but would you have any advice on this?

 

[Jessica Booker]

The GDL/LPC route will be viable as long as you start the GDL by December 2021. Any later than that, and you’ll have to do the SQE.

Ultimately the SQE was designed for someone like you. Shortens the time needed before you start a TC (you could even find a TC before you have done the SQE and find a firm like Kennedys who put you through the SQE during your training contract basically on a graduate apprenticeship).

I don’t know enough about the specifics of the firms you are looking at and what they are doing. If they aren’t communicating about it, then it will be difficult.

Be mindful though that many law grads will be coming out of their course in 2024 and will have to do the SQE, so by 2024/25 we could see a general switch towards the SQE anyway. As I understand it, if you didn’t start a qualifying law degree this academic year or earlier, then you won’t be eligible to do the SQE. Therefore if you did choose to do the GDL, you’d have to make sure you went straight on to the LPC as that’s likely to be the last year it’s provided on mass. So I don’t think doing the LPC in 2025 will be practical. There will be some law grads (four year courses/part-time/people who already graduated) who will be eligible to take the LPC still by the time we get to 2025, but the reality is the vast majority of people will have moved to the SQE by that point.

 

[Dublinwolf95]

The GDL/LPC route will be viable as long as you start the GDL by December 2021. Any later than that, and you’ll have to do the SQE.

Ultimately the SQE was designed for someone like you. Shortens the time needed before you start a TC (you could even find a TC before you have done the SQE and find a firm like Kennedys who put you through the SQE during your training contract basically on a graduate apprenticeship).

I don’t know enough about the specifics of the firms you are looking at and what they are doing. If they aren’t communicating about it, then it will be difficult.

Be mindful though that many law grads will be coming out of their course in 2024 and will have to do the SQE, so by 2024/25 we could see a general switch towards the SQE anyway. As I understand it, if you didn’t start a qualifying law degree this academic year or earlier, then you won’t be eligible to do the SQE. Therefore if you did choose to do the GDL, you’d have to make sure you went straight on to the LPC as that’s likely to be the last year it’s provided on mass. So I don’t think doing the LPC in 2025 will be practical. There will be some law grads (four year courses/part-time/people who already graduated) who will be eligible to take the LPC still by the time we get to 2025, but the reality is the vast majority of people will have moved to the SQE by that point.

Thanks so much for that, it's really helpful advice. Just to clarify, I would be finished the LPC and ready to start a TC by earliest 2024, latest 2025 - would this be unpractical?

I was speaking to both BPP and UaL today about both routes and they weren't able to give much clarity. In terms of the SQE route, I can see that some of the larger firms will require non-law grads to have completed a PGDL. Which would mean, according to both unis, doing a PGDL and then additional SQE prep courses, before sitting the SQE itself. For either GDL/LPC or SQE, is it pretty much expected that you will do a GDL/PGDL?

As the types of firms I'm interested in don't fund the training routes and generally seem to recruit from paralegals, I'm thinking that my best option is to apply for a lot of paralegal roles and then be studying one route or another part-time

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks so much for that, it's really helpful advice. Just to clarify, I would be finished the LPC and ready to start a TC by earliest 2024, latest 2025 - would this be unpractical?

I was speaking to both BPP and UaL today about both routes and they weren't able to give much clarity. In terms of the SQE route, I can see that some of the larger firms will require non-law grads to have completed a PGDL. Which would mean, according to both unis, doing a PGDL and then additional SQE prep courses, before sitting the SQE itself. For either GDL/LPC or SQE, is it pretty much expected that you will do a GDL/PGDL?

As the types of firms I'm interested in don't fund the training routes and generally seem to recruit from paralegals, I'm thinking that my best option is to apply for a lot of paralegal roles and then be studying one route or another part-time

It may be impractical if you are waiting until 2024/2025. Law students starting courses this September onwards won’t be able to take the LPC route. With the first groups graduating in 2024, it’s likely the last major intakes for the LPC will be 2023. The LPC route will still be open of course (all the way through to 2032) but there will just be far fewer people taking that route. It is difficult to hypothesise though - it could be the case that the LPC is still storming along until it’s death in 2032.

The one benefit of the LPC (no matter when you do it) is it does exempt you from SQE stage 1, but you’d still need to complete SQE stage 2.

I think the need to do a PGDL is an interim measure from firms. They are risk adverse and don’t want to rely on SQE prep courses that aren’t tried and tested yet. I don’t think this will be the case in the next couple of years, as they will be able to identify SQE prep courses that are sufficient in covering SQE prep for non-law grads.

 

[Willbur]

Thanks so much for that, it's really helpful advice. Just to clarify, I would be finished the LPC and ready to start a TC by earliest 2024, latest 2025 - would this be unpractical?

I was speaking to both BPP and UaL today about both routes and they weren't able to give much clarity. In terms of the SQE route, I can see that some of the larger firms will require non-law grads to have completed a PGDL. Which would mean, according to both unis, doing a PGDL and then additional SQE prep courses, before sitting the SQE itself. For either GDL/LPC or SQE, is it pretty much expected that you will do a GDL/PGDL?

As the types of firms I'm interested in don't fund the training routes and generally seem to recruit from paralegals, I'm thinking that my best option is to apply for a lot of paralegal roles and then be studying one route or another part-time

@Dublinwolf95 - I am in EXACTLY the same predicament as you with all the same timelines and areas of law. Having initially felt lucky that this was the last year one could choose to go down the GDL>LPC route I now feel like the ability to choose represents a bit of a curse. I have fired off so many emails and left so many voicemails with HR/recruitment people at firms I am interested in seeking guidance and I am getting either very non-committal 'watch this space' responses or just no response at all. It's quite stressful and making it very hard to model the next few years. And then, just when you think you've found a good SQE course for your needs it transpires that you need an LLB or GDL already which, as Jessica points out, is about providers trying to offset jitters in the industry but which, ultimately, undermines what the SRA is trying to do and is punitive on non-law grads. It just adds years. The only thing I would add is that if you were doing the GDL part-time (2021-23) and then the LPC full time ('23-24) you would be applying for training contracts (for those firms that offer them - and there are some in the areas you are interested in) either in '22 or '23. It would be pretty cruel to then make you do the SQE as well. Many of the firms I look at require an LPC under the belt before any training can start and my question at the moment, particularly for firms like the ones you and I are interested in, is what will replace that threshold under the new system e.g. will a firm require SQE1 to be completed before you can start somewhere? Or SQE1 + 2?

 

[Jane Smith]

It is a huge dilemma for Sept 2021 law starters currently without a training contract to sponsor their course (and the last year ever with this choice).

Question one is for those doing the GDL part time from Sept - will there be LPC courses in 2 years' time or will you end up doing SQE anyway? If you are doing full time GDL Sept 2021 then it's different - I am sure there will be full time LPC courses starting 2022.

For part timers I would probably pick the SQE route. My only concern is what will SQE be like and who wants to be first doing new exams? Will it be harder to pass or easier etc etc. Law firms will not know about it. Which will they prefer people to have had?

Whilst you can do the new training without having done the SQE2 courses and exam I don't feel that is ideal. You may not have the knowledge you need and I know the bigger firms want people to have passed the exams before they start the 2 years of training.

Not relevant to the questions here as they are about part time study, but I did notice UoL seem to have a one year course for SQE1 and 2 ( a one year masters so presumably with potential for the newish student loans for masters) - shorter than the current GDL (even than the current BPP PDGL of 8 months) + LPC (even than the 7 month accelerated BPP LPC), which for full time students might be suitable - https://www.law.ac.uk/globalassets/...es-llm-legal-practice-sqe-1-2-preparation.pdf

It is shorter than the city consortium's new SQE1 and 2 courses - https://www.slaughterandmay.com/med...ity-consortium-graduate-flyer_may-2020_v4.pdf.
However a shorter course is not necessarily better.