career change - need advice

[sheilay]

Hi All,
I see people on this forum are very helpful in sharing their experience and providing advice. I would appreciate, if you could help me with my complicated situation. And sorry for the chaos, but I am still a bit lost and have 1000s thoughts in my head/minute.

I am >30 and have a degree in finance. I consider a career change, although given my age, I am being realistic about my (low) chances of "great" law career. I read through a lot of forums, SRA, called a few unis to get advice.

My (naive) thoughts and hopes were, that as a non-law graduate, I can only do some preparation courses for SQE and voila - I will pass it and later apply for TC. From what the uni advisors have told me, it seems only the name changes, but the overall path won't. I will still have to do GDL and either LPC or SQE. For SQE I can directly go for the exam without doing a prep course in case of a sudden enlightenment. However, they still recommend taking a course.

My current plan (and after chatting to uni advisors) is to do a part-time GDL (self-funded), try to secure TC, do LPC (if sponsored) or otherwise SQE (by self study or finding the cheapest course provider). I know that most of the law firms partner with BPP, so I am considering doing PGDL there. However, I have noticed many bad reviews about BPP and ask myself, if it is worth doing it for 11k or better to go to i.e. LMU and pay 6k instead. I thought that maybe by doing GDL at the uni that is more "recognized" by so many law firms my chances of securing TC would rise. However, I started to think, what if I will not get a TC and I would have to do (self-funded) LPC/SQE. I noticed the price for LPC is significantly higher than for GDL. Or worse - if I would fail in the course, I would hate to lose so much money..My hope would be later to find a cheap SQE course and self-study a lot. I doubt I would go for (self-funded) LPC for another 11k not having a TC. Any advice on what woud you do in my situation?

Also, have any of you made an experience of doing LPC while starting TC already? I would really prefer to avoid studying LPC part-time and starting TC later (given my age). Well again, here my only hope would be doing SQE (given some unis offer a shorter course).

Thanks!

 

[Dheepa]

Hi there,

You have a lot of questions here so I'm going to try to answer them systematically.

1. Will doing the the GDL at a different provider (i.e. not BPP) affect you chances of securing a TC?

While most law firms do use ULaw or BPP, I don't think the provider you choose factors into your chances of securing a TC in any way.

2. Advice on whether you should self fund the LPC/SQE

This is ultimately a really personal decision. It sounds like you'd rather not self-fund at all, in which case I would suggest holding out until you do get a TC. You can start applying now even while you still hold on to your finance job and keep applying while you do the GDL.

3. Doing the LPC while starting a TC

As far as I know I don't think any firm lets you start a TC before completing the LPC since the LPC is a pre-requisite to getting qualified.

4. On being a non-native English speaker and practicing

I think you would need to be able to speak English fluently, both to do well in the LPC/SQE and to practice. However, you don't need to be a native speaker per say. This is just a question of how fluent you are in English at the moment and unfortunately it's something only you would know the answer to. I also wouldn't worry about your accent, plenty of successful partners and associates I met have accents and that alone is not a barrier to you securing a TC.

Just a suggestion, but if your goal is to be able to study law and not so much practice it, you could always do a Masters in Law or something to that effect?

@Jessica Booker might also be able to answer some of your questions surrounding the LPC/SQE.

 

[sheilay]

Fantastic, many thanks Dheepa!! I only know a few British lawyers, therefore your answer to my question helps me a lot.

It's a shame I have to do LPC before the contract, as thought I could do it during it. As a (very) late strter, I'd obviously prefer to save some time. If I wont secure a TC during/after GDL, Ill rather search for some (cheap) SQE courses or try to self prepare. I guess I'll think about it when it comes to this. I cannot afford dropping my finance career and go for GDL/LPC full-time not knowing, if I'll be able to secure a TC.
Do you think I could wait for a few years with doing SQE/LPC after I finish GDL or does it decrease my chances to get a TC? i.e. can I wait until I secure a TC or do I have higher chances to get one already having LPC (again, given my age)?

Btw, as you are so helpful with the topic, could you please tell me what options would I have to get some law experience? Is there any chance to do something on the weekends or during i.e. 2-4 weeks only? And that rather as 2*2 weeks (max 3 weeks, 1 week), as I guess my employer will not allow me to take 4 weeks at once. I unfortunately cannot give up on my current job and i.e. become a FT paralegal. That would absolutely destroy my career in finance. It is too risky as I do not know, if I would end up with a TC at all. It took me a few years to get a good salary/title, so would not like to lose it.
I understand once I start GDL I could get some experience in law clinics. Are there any other options for full-time employees that would help my CV?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Fantastic, many thanks Dheepa!! I only know a few British lawyers, therefore your answer to my question helps me a lot. I'm fluent in English (I also have a few Cambridge certifications on my CV), as well as in 3 other languages.

It's a shame I have to do LPC before the contract, as thought I could do it during it. As a (very) late strter, I'd obviously prefer to save some time. If I wont secure a TC during/after GDL, Ill rather search for some (cheap) SQE courses or try to self prepare. I guess I'll think about it when it comes to this. I cannot afford dropping my finance career and go for GDL/LPC full-time not knowing, if I'll be able to secure a TC.
Do you think I could wait for a few years with doing SQE/LPC after I finish GDL or does it decrease my chances to get a TC? i.e. can I wait until I secure a TC or do I have higher chances to get one already having LPC (again, given my age)?

Btw, as you are so helpful with the topic, could you please tell me what options would I have to get some law experience? Is there any chance to do something on the weekends or during i.e. 2-4 weeks only? And that rather as 2*2 weeks (max 3 weeks, 1 week), as I guess my employer will not allow me to take 4 weeks at once. I unfortunately cannot give up on my current job and i.e. become a FT paralegal. That would absolutely destroy my career in finance. It is too risky as I do not know, if I would end up with a TC at all. It took me a few years to get a good salary/title, so would not like to lose it.
I understand once I start GDL I could get some experience in law clinics. Are there any other options for full-time employees that would help my CV?

You can do the SQE during a TC in some instances, so you may want to look to take that route instead. That could save you time because you don’t have to commit to 19-24 months (and that is if it’s full time) being committed to the GDL + LPC.

Unless you start the GDL this year, it won’t be a viable route for you anyway.

There would be little logic in doing the GDL now having a few years out and then picking up the process. The GDL would be fairly redundant by that time as most firms will have converted to the SQE by then and trying to pass the SQE exams when you have studied law in a while is probably not the best way to approach it - I don’t think many people would feel prepared for an exam for a course they studied years ago.

Jobs don’t really happen at the weekends but you could apply for vacation schemes to get 2-4 weeks experience with firms. You could also look out for career changer events (a few firms do this and the Law Society tend to run at least one a year).

 

[sheilay]

Thank you so much, Jessica!

After talking to a few uni advisors they said it would not be possible to pass the SQE exam doing only a prep course. They told me GDL is the best choice for a non-law graduate. Currently only some unis offer SQE courses and these are very short i.e. 4months. If you are saying GDL will not be offered anymore, what will replace it? SQE 2years/4years (FT/PT) course? The advisors told me (as above) that actually only the name changes, the lentgh of the route stays similar.
Also you wrote GDL might be "not valid" anymore? I thought that the courses taught in SQE would be still the same like these in GDL? What will happen with people who passed GDL/LPC but have not secured TC previously? I assume they will only have to pass SQE exam doing a short SQE course, not paying another 10k for a long course?

 

[M&A]

Hi,

Just a brief comment.

It can be done. I'm 36 and from abroad and secured a TC in a SC firm last year. Currently doing the GDL part-time and expecting to do the LPC full-time next academic year.

Cannot advise you on SQE as I don't know that route. However the GDL is tough and there is a lot to learn. So I would, from what you have described, enroll in a formal course to prepare for the SQE rather than self-studying. Believe me, even at a 'taught GDL' there is ample self-studying already...but I think doing it entirely by yourself might be OTT.

I don't think choice of Uni matters in terms of graduate recruitment's expectations. But some unis have better career services and probono departments than others.

I'm at BPP and I'm happy here. I found careers service great. I had several consultations, mock interviews... and they organise tons of employer events.

The probono team is superb and that is a good way of securing good legal experience. I also did this and I expect to do more next year.

A background in finance will go down well in your applications. Make sure you can demonstrate willingness to learn and team spirit. As a career changer the assumption to fight against is that you are not too experienced to be humble to learn from people younger than yourself and to start from a lesser position of responsibility. Good luck!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you so much, Jessica! You are all so helpful, I cannot express how grateful I am for all the valuable advice. It's a huge help for someone having a different background, as finance world works in a completely different way.

I am planning to start GDL already in May, instead of Sep to save time. As mentioned before, Ill have to do it part-time.

@Jessica Booker, talking to a few uni advisors they said it would not be possible to pass the SQE exam doing only a prep course. They told me GDL is the best choice for a non-law graduate. Currently only some unis offer SQE courses and these are very short i.e. 4months. If you are saying GDL will not be offered anymore, what will replace it? SQE 2years/4years (FT/PT) course? The advisors told me (as above) that actually only the name changes, the lentgh of the route stays similar.
Also you wrote GDL might be "not valid" anymore? I thought that the courses taught in SQE would be still the same like these in GDL? What will happen with people who passed GDL/LPC but have not secured TC previously? I assume they will only have to pass SQE exam doing a short SQE course, not paying another 10k for a long course?

If you start the GDL in May, you will have to take the SQE route. You won't have any choice in the matter as the LPC/TC route will be closed to you by that point.

People have passed the SQE in the pilot without doing the GDL.....

The GDL will just be rebadged as an expensive "SQE Prep" course.

There will be no one replacement to the GDL. There will be a whole host of prep courses of different lengths. There is no longer a regulatory requirement, so what you do is only for your personal learning, not a requirement to qualify.

If you don't start the GDL by December 2021, you will have to take the SQE route. If you complete the LPC, then you can go on to do a tradition TC route to qualify. Or you could choose to do the SQE and get an exemption from SQE Stage 1.

 

[sheilay]

If you start the GDL in May, you will have to take the SQE route. You won't have any choice in the matter as the LPC/TC route will be closed to you by that point.

People have passed the SQE in the pilot without doing the GDL.....

The GDL will just be rebadged as an expensive "SQE Prep" course.

@Jessica Booker , the university advisor who I spoke to, said that LPC will still be offered in the next few years, so I am a bit confused.

Also, by "People have passed the SQE in the pilot without doing the GDL....." did you mean people who completed LLB?
As per the chats I had with a few unis, they said at the moment they are not offering "full" SQE courses and the short ones will be unsufficient to pass SQE for people who don't have a law background. They have told me in any case, I need a solid base for a start.

My plan was to do GDP part-time (it would take me until Dec23). Inbetween (i.e. after first term/exams, seeing my results and assessing TC chances) to apply for TC. Hopefully someone would sponsor my LPC/SQE (whichever would be required at that time).

Do you think it is a good plan or should I change something?

I will be again super gratefull for your insights. I dont want to repeat my past mistakes that cost me a lot of time and money..

 

[whisperingrock]

@Jessica Booker , the university advisor who I spoke to, said that LPC will still be offered in the next few years, so I am a bit confused.

Also, by "People have passed the SQE in the pilot without doing the GDL....." did you mean people who completed LLB?
As per the chats I had with a few unis, they said at the moment they are not offering "full" SQE courses and the short ones will be unsufficient to pass SQE for people who don't have a law background. They have told me in any case, I need a solid base for a start.

My plan was to do GDP part-time (it would take me until Dec23). Inbetween (i.e. after first term/exams, seeing my results and assessing TC chances) to apply for TC. Hopefully someone would sponsor my LPC/SQE (whichever would be required at that time). My preference would be to do the course part-time (already starting the TC or still working in finance until I complete the last exam). In case I would not secure TC until I complete GDL, I would go for SQE short course and do my best to pass it. I also plan to do some short (1-2 weeks) vacations schemes and help out at student clinics to add something to my CV.

Do you think it is a good plan or should I change something? Again, given I'm 35, I want to get into law taking the shortest/cheapest route (as spent a lot on my education already). I know cheapest&shortest sounds cheeky given people do LLB. I sadly cannot emphise enough how I regret my past (wrong) career choices.. Also as mentioned before I cannot afford to leave my current career and just become a paralegal or a full-time student.

I will be again super gratefull for your insights. I dont want to repeat my past mistakes that cost me a lot of time and money..

You need to remember that the universities you spoke to have a vested interest in you enrolling on their course and giving them your money. Of course they're going to say that the cheap and accessible option isn't good.

What I really don't get is why you are so insistent on choosing a course right now instead of just applying for training contracts and vacation schemes come the next application window. That way you don't spend a ton of money at a time when it is very up in the air what the best decision is because things are very confusing regarding the SQE and what the best plan of action is. You can do a lot of things to show an interest in a legal career and make your applications strong that don't involve signing up for the GDL. Multiple people on the student room also told you that you don't need to have done the GDL to apply for training contracts.

You seem to have decided you need to be a lawyer now, and every decision is stemming from that impulse when it isn't particularly thought out or rational. Doing the GDL right away isn't going to make things much faster or easier for you, and odds are good that it will only cost you money.

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker , the university advisor who I spoke to, said that LPC will still be offered in the next few years, so I am a bit confused.

Also, by "People have passed the SQE in the pilot without doing the GDL....." did you mean people who completed LLB?
As per the chats I had with a few unis, they said at the moment they are not offering "full" SQE courses and the short ones will be unsufficient to pass SQE for people who don't have a law background. They have told me in any case, I need a solid base for a start.

My plan was to do GDP part-time (it would take me until Dec23). Inbetween (i.e. after first term/exams, seeing my results and assessing TC chances) to apply for TC. Hopefully someone would sponsor my LPC/SQE (whichever would be required at that time). My preference would be to do the course part-time (already starting the TC or still working in finance until I complete the last exam). In case I would not secure TC until I complete GDL, I would go for SQE short course and do my best to pass it. I also plan to do some short (1-2 weeks) vacations schemes and help out at student clinics to add something to my CV.

Do you think it is a good plan or should I change something? Again, given I'm 35, I want to get into law taking the shortest/cheapest route (as spent a lot on my education already). I know cheapest&shortest sounds cheeky given people do LLB. I sadly cannot emphise enough how I regret my past (wrong) career choices.. Also as mentioned before I cannotYY afford to leave my current career and just become a paralegal or a full-time student.

I will be again super gratefull for your insights. I dont want to repeat my past mistakes that cost me a lot of time and money..

Yes, the LPC will be. But the GDL will only be available until December 2021. If you haven't started the GDL by then, you won't be able to go on to the LPC.

No - the people who passed came from a range of backgrounds, including someone who had never studied law in a formal setting.

Note if you do the GDL part-time and then go on to do the LPC, many firms will have moved to the SQE by that point anyway.

I am not convinced doing the GDL is the answer in this sceanrio , but thats just my personal view.

 

[sheilay]

It can be done. I'm 36 and from abroad and secured a TC in a SC firm last year. Currently doing the GDL part-time and expecting to do the LPC full-time next academic year.

However the GDL is tough and there is a lot to learn. So I would, from what you have described, enroll in a formal course to prepare for the SQE rather than self-studying. Believe me, even at a 'taught GDL' there is ample self-studying already...but I think doing it entirely by yourself might be OTT.

I don't think choice of Uni matters in terms of graduate recruitment's expectations. But some unis have better career services and probono departments than others.

I'm at BPP and I'm happy here. I found careers service great. I had several consultations, mock interviews... and they organise tons of employer events.

The probono team is superb and that is a good way of securing good legal experience. I also did this and I expect to do more next year.

I will most probably join BPP (part-time) as well. Can you please tell me, did you secure the TC prior starting GDL or after you started?

Yes, I will for sure do SQE prep course but hopefully not a 1-2years long one for 15k..I guess I will think about it later.

 

[sheilay]

Okay, thanks @Jessica Booker @whisperingrock
So what would you advise to do in my case, if not GDL? Again, I cannot dump my finance career not knowing, if I will secure TC in the future. I will of course apply for TC this year already but I don't have high hopes. Tbh being realistic I see ZERO chances that I would be offered TC applying this year. Like I wrote before, for me it is surreal that a company would sponsor GDL/LPC not knowing how the person will do in the course (i.e. if will not fail) and having zero law background. I of course understand sponsoring LLB student though or someone from a non-law background who is 25. Respect to those who made it but for me, it is just too stressfull and too big risk to take. I would also not be able to do both courses (i.e. GDL/LPC or SQE long course) full-time for two years. I could simply (and sadly) not afford that. I can only do something part-time for a start (and see if I am good at it) and then later do a part-time (hopefully short) SQE course or get sponsored for a 1 year full time course (LPC, SQE, whichever new comes in), that would be ok. That's why I have asked previously, if you know any people who started TC during LPC.

Of course my other option would be to wait until next year when unis will start to offer a (long?) SQE prep course but I would again lose at least 8months. Sorry for bothering you with so many questions but it is indeed a difficult one..

 

[Jessica Booker]

Okay, thanks @Jessica Booker @whisperingrock
So what would you advise to do in my case, if not GDL? Again, I cannot dump my finance career not knowing, if I will secure TC in the future. I will of course apply for TC this year already but I don't have high hopes. Tbh being realistic I see ZERO chances that I would be offered TC applying this year. Like I wrote before, for me it is surreal that a company would sponsor GDL/LPC not knowing how the person will do in the course (i.e. if will not fail) and having zero law background. I of course understand sponsoring LLB student though or someone from a non-law background who is 25. Respect to those who made it but for me, it is just too stressfull and too big risk to take. I would also not be able to do both courses (i.e. GDL/LPC or SQE long course) full-time for two years. I could simply (and sadly) not afford that. I can only do something part-time for a start (and see if I am good at it) and then later do it part-time (hopefully short) SQE course or get sponsored for a 1 year full time course, that would be ok. That's why I have asked if you know any cases of people who started TC during LPC.

Of course my other option would be to wait until next year when unis will start to offer a (long?) SQE prep course but I would again lose at least 8months. Sorry for bothering you with so many questions but it is indeed a difficult one..

It sounds like you haven't even applied yet. Maybe spend the upcoming 12 months applying and seeing how you get on.

The way you are considering the GDL course, you are basically signing yourself up to an expensive SQE prep course, but spread over a long period of time which could make if harder to pass the SQE (unless you are amazing at retaining detail).

One of the reasons why law firms care about your previous academic performance (eg undergrad degree performance) is that it is a fairly good predictor of your ability to pass the GDL/LPC. Lots of firms sponsor people through the GDL with no sense as to whether they would pass the course beyond their previous academic performance.They take the risk you are suggesting is an issue all the time!

Age really isn’t the issue you are making it out to be. I've recruited far foo many people in their 30s to show it isn't an issue. I have also recruited people in their 40s and even one in their 50s.

From everything you have said it sounds like you are doing the GDL to try and improve your application chances (really won't matter) you will then do a SQE prep course. You could just do the latter.

Starting TCs while still doing re LPC is possible but firms that sponsor work permits don't do it. It is mainly high street firms that allow you to do this.

But I will stress this again, there are some firms where you start your SQE training contract before you start the SQE prep courses. So it sounds like you should wait for the SQE anyway!

 

[whisperingrock]

Okay, thanks @Jessica Booker @whisperingrock
So what would you advise to do in my case, if not GDL? Again, I cannot dump my finance career not knowing, if I will secure TC in the future. I will of course apply for TC this year already but I don't have high hopes. Tbh being realistic I see ZERO chances that I would be offered TC applying this year. Like I wrote before, for me it is surreal that a company would sponsor GDL/LPC not knowing how the person will do in the course (i.e. if will not fail) and having zero law background. I of course understand sponsoring LLB student though or someone from a non-law background who is 25. Respect to those who made it but for me, it is just too stressfull and too big risk to take. I would also not be able to do both courses (i.e. GDL/LPC or SQE long course) full-time for two years. I could simply (and sadly) not afford that. I can only do something part-time for a start (and see if I am good at it) and then later do a part-time (hopefully short) SQE course or get sponsored for a 1 year full time course (LPC, SQE, whichever new comes in), that would be ok. That's why I have asked previously, if you know any people who started TC during LPC.

Of course my other option would be to wait until next year when unis will start to offer a (long?) SQE prep course but I would again lose at least 8months. Sorry for bothering you with so many questions but it is indeed a difficult one..

My advice is exactly what I said in my comment and what you've been told many many times by other people on The Student Room - apply for training contracts and vacation schemes and see what happens. Doing the GDL is not the benefit you think it is as Jess said, and you can easily come out the other side of it no closer to a legal career than when you started.

 

[sheilay]

okay, many thanks!

 

[Oslewny]

It's awesome that you're considering a new career path. As for advice, have you thought about looking into training provider in malaysia? They could offer courses or programs that align with your interests. It might be worth exploring what options they have and how they could help you transition into a new field. Also, talking to people already working in the industry you're interested in can give you some valuable insights. Networking can be a game-changer! Best of luck with your career change, and remember, it's never too late to pursue something you're passionate about!