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Ask me anything: Trainee at Morrison & Foerster
- Thread starter Jaysen
- Start date
They certainly did tell me to, but unfortunately I had a couple of things to do - it was definitely recognised and acknowledged though!
Researching law firms is always tricky. A law firm's website is the most obvious place to start - it will tell you not only what they're looking for, but also the kind of firm that they see themselves as. If you can tap into that, and show you understand that a firm is particularly proud of its relaxed culture, or its clientele, or its training program, you'll go a long way to showing that you know what they're about. I know the Corporate Law Academy is also working on having firm profiles that maybe give a deeper insight (and already has some for Magic Circle firms), so look out for things like that too. Naturally, if you can talk to people from firms at law fairs etc. this can also help. (I never thought it made any difference, but having come to Morrison & Foerster, I've learnt that if you can make a good impression at one of those fairs and show you actually know about the firm, it can have a big impact on your application!). Hopefully that will help to make your application more personal to the firm you're looking to join.
In terms of news stories, deals etc. I was once told that the most comprehensive way to do this is to take a deal (for example from a press release from the firm's website), look it up on a news site so you have a more neutral, potentially more thorough insight (FT, The Lawyer whatever it might be) and then, if you have the relevant information, look up the deal on the site of any other firms involved. This method can help to give you a sort of 360 degree view of the deal or case.
I'm the same way about smaller close knit groups. Good to know we are not alone
You certainly are not alone. In fact, as a general point here, whatever kind of personality you have, whatever your quirks and charms, chances are you will not be alone in a law firm, even a small one like Morrison & Foerster. There are so many diverse personalities in this profession that it is extremely likely that you will find someone similar to you: someone who still gets really nervous talking to clients, someone who's really introverted, someone who maybe doesn't drink that much, family people etc. (and indeed the opposite of all those things). So whatever your personality type, don't feel like you're the only one! Especially if you're weird. Lawyers are weirdos. (In a good way, of course.)
Hi
It's been great reading your answers so far. I was wondering what perks do you get at your firm (aside from money)? I mean things like gym memberships or work phones? It's a bit embarassing to ask law firms at their open day haha!Hey Ellen! You're right - always awkward asking things like that.. I think our perks are fairly typical in comparison to most law firms - so Morrison & Foerster subsidises gym memberships (they contribute 50% of the monthly membership fee); they also offer health insurance and pensions contributions and that sensible stuff that we should all think about more. In terms of work phones, you tend to be able to get an iPhone or Blackberry phone (generally up to date models), you get a little choice there depending on what you're into!Hi
Thanks this is very helpful! I didn't know that about law fairs. Do recruiters make notes on people that people that make good impressions?
They don't take notes as such, but they usually take your details, and will look out for your application when it comes! Granted, there are still no guarantees that you'll be successful, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
That is really reassuring. I think there's a big impression that you have to be really confident to be a lawyer. A lot of people doubted my decision to go into corporate law because they think I am not loud or great in big groups but I am trying to soldier on and hopefully I can make it. I think i do well on one to one interviews but when it comes to negotiations and groups I feel a bit out of place. Do you have any tips for how to handle group exercises for someone that isn't very good at them?
Yeah, I think that's a common misconception. However, I will say that it's important to have at least a degree of self confidence (quiet self-confidence is of course perfectly fine, of course). While there really is no need at all to be loud, or good in big groups, particularly at the start of your journey as a lawyer, you do have to realise that your voice and your opinion actually matters. It's quite tricky on how to offer concrete tips on how to do this, but a good start is to aim to contribute more in other group settings (maybe a class if you're still at university/law school, or other groups you may interact with).
You acknowledge that you do well in one to one interviews, which means that you clearly have interesting and valid things to say, so let people hear those things! I have had moments in group exercises where I have sat there and thought: "I haven't said anything in a while, I really should, I'm being so quiet". It can be really nerve-wracking, and actually inhibiting.
While I don't think that's necessarily healthy, I believe it can helpful to set yourself a little target of contributing a certain number of times. You don't have to say anything particularly lengthy, and in fact the more concise and punchy you are the better you tend to come across. But problems like a lack of contribution in group exercises, especially where you feel you're being dwarfed, often comes down to you thinking that what you're going to say is wrong, or that people will think you're stupid. They won't, and even if what you say isn't quite on the nose, if you can set up a plausible argument for it you will still come off well.
The other good news is that as a person who is naturally quieter (at least as far as I can tell) you will be much less likely to steamroller someone or shout them down, which is maybe the worst thing you can do in these types of things. However, probably just as bad is saying nothing (as I'm sure you know). Back yourself to be able to make pertinent, well reasoned points, it is highly likely that you will.
The last thing I'll say is that it is entirely okay to feel nervous, or jittery, or concerned about these things. As I've said before: many, many people feel the same way. I'm not telling you that the presence of any anxiety at all will prevent you from succeeding - you just have to try and fight off that particular demon as best you can, and I'm sure you'll do great.
Quiet self confidence it is
. But thank you. What you said about sitting in group exercises and thinking you should say something is what I feel like I go through all the time and that's a really good tip about setting a target. What is the social scene like at your law firm?Quiet self confidence it is
It's generally really good - while things depend on how busy work is, people are usually keen to do something on a Friday evening. Also when you have as small an intake of trainees as we do you all become very close, and so it's common for us to just hang out where possible.
One of the best things about Morrison & Foerster is that all staff really do get on, and any social will typically involve everyone, not just lawyers. We have regular 'Cheese and Wine' socials in the office where everyone just shows up to the Games Room, grabs a bite to eat, and has a chat for a bit, which makes for a really nice vibe generally.
Given that we're quite small, sports teams and that kind of thing can be tricky, but some people who are into fitness do gym classes together, and there's a netball team in the Summer as well - so on the whole there are plenty of opportunities to mix with everyone, whatever your interests might be!
Hi Rayhaan, sorry if I'm too late, your answers have been really helpful
. I just was wondering if you had any tips on how to do well on a vac scheme? I have one coming up in spring at a US firm but I think the conversion rates are meant to be quite low.Hi Rayhaan, sorry if I'm too late, your answers have been really helpful
You're not too late, no need to apologise!
I think it's important to bear in mind that on a vacation scheme, the overwhelming question that people at a law firm will be asking themselves of you is 'would I actually want to work with this person?'. It's a cliché, but some things are clichés because they're true.
First thing's first: the work. There is no expectation on you to do work to an extremely high standard, or to show exceptional intellect. What will help, though, is enthusiasm and diligence. The key here is making sure that people know that you are keen to get involved (volunteer readily for work, show genuine interest in learning about what the firm does) and that when you get work you will treat it with the requisite level of care and respect (limit silly mistakes as best you can, take due time over things). I know this isn't rocket science, but the truth is, being a good person to work with isn't rocket science. The other tip that is quite handy in this regard is: make sure you communicate. Reply promptly to emails (as far as possible), keep people updated of where you are with work - if things are taking you slightly longer than expected that really is totally fine, but you have to tell the person who is expecting it. I made the mistake in an early vac scheme of just holding on to something without keeping the relevant associate updated, and it did not go down particularly well... Beyond that though, try to do everything to the best of your ability. I would say quality reigns over quantity in these sorts of things - try not to stress if you're not able to get as much work as you might like - just put everything into what you do get.
The second part of the vac scheme process is much more subjective. Depending on your personality, you will get on with some people and grate with others. That's fine. However, you should try your best to come out of your shell if you can (no point being someone you're not, it won't look as convincing as you think): attend firm events, mix and work with your fellow vac schemers, and engage with the lawyers at the firm. Ultimately, this one is just going to come down to who you are as a person, but I will say that the more you can relax (easier said than done I know) the better off you'll be. No one expects you to be Emma Watson or Ryan Gosling (other charming humans are available), you just have to show you can mix in a team, that you're fairly pleasant and that you want to be there.
If you're genuinely interested in something, whether it's an area of law, or a presentation you were given, or a TV programme that a trainee is talking about, show your interest. Vac schemes are about making connections, and anyway you can do that will be appreciated. What's more, it'll help people remember you, and put someone in your corner, which is obviously no bad thing, particularly if the conversion rates are quite low at the firm you're going to.
Oh one more thing, don't make it into the Apprentice, and don't worry if another vac scheme student seems to be doing really well or has a lot of work. Their circumstances are not within your control. If you get competitive to a point where you put others down, or - much more likely - get disheartened because you think others are much better than you, you are counting yourself out of the race, and you owe it to yourself not to do that. The more you can engage with fellow vac schemers, and band together in what can be an intense experience, the better off you'll be.
Apologies if that was a bit all over the place. I know these things can be incredibly stressful and intense, but if you can blend competence and enthusiasm with work with general pleasantness and sociability in terms of the way you go about things day to day, and then try to establish some connections along the way, I think you'll be in a really good place. Very best of luck!
- Feb 17, 2018
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Welcome to the forum Mohan! Please feel free to introduce yourself here: https://www.thecorporatelawacademy.com/forum/threads/welcome-introduce-yourself-here.18/
