Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica

I have recently graduated with a high 2.1 in a non-law subject but having talked to multiple people, attended networking sessions and going to the workshops at TCLA I am very keen to become a lawyer. I have had a mini-pupillage (2018) and had some work experience at a law firm (2015) and sent in applications for Vac Schemes earlier this year. I am waiting to hear back from a firm whose assessment I completed a week ago but I was asking how does rec look at non-law, no vac scheme, but enrolled on the GDL applicants? I would still be applying for vac schemes (when on the GDL and not TCs directly) but was wondering whether this advisable? Are there any stats/general trends you have seen amongst this category?

Thanks!

Definitely can’t provide any stats or trends.

For many firms you will have to wait for their non law application window which won’t open until the Autumn anyway and so with those firms you may want to apply for winter vacation schemes/open days first And then make a subsequent TC application.

From what you have said, you’ll probably need more recent work experience (doesn’t have to be law though), so might be advisable to apply for vac schemes rather than direct TCs, but if a firm doesn’t offer them then makes sense to apply directly for a TC.

Obviously this is making an awful lots of assumptions based on what you have/haven’t said and also which type of firms you are aiming for.

Self-enrolment on to the GDL will show some level of commitment to the career, but to be frank it isn’t enough. In my opinion to many people enrol on the the GDL and think that is enough, when it really won’t be anywhere close to being so.

 

[IntrepidL]

Hi Jessica, I hope you are well. I was wondering if you suspect there will be a reduced trainee intake for this year and the following year?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica, I hope you are well. I was wondering if you suspect there will be a reduced trainee intake for this year and the following year?

If there is, it will mainly be seen in deferrals of training contract offers that have already been made in the last two years, so it tends to not really impact people applying now.

 

[keenaspiringlawyer]

Definitely can’t provide any stats or trends.

For many firms you will have to wait for their non law application window which won’t open until the Autumn anyway and so with those firms you may want to apply for winter vacation schemes/open days first And then make a subsequent TC application.

From what you have said, you’ll probably need more recent work experience (doesn’t have to be law though), so might be advisable to apply for vac schemes rather than direct TCs, but if a firm doesn’t offer them then makes sense to apply directly for a TC.

Obviously this is making an awful lots of assumptions based on what you have/haven’t said and also which type of firms you are aiming for.

Self-enrolment on to the GDL will show some level of commitment to the career, but to be frank it isn’t enough. In my opinion to many people enrol on the the GDL and think that is enough, when it really won’t be anywhere close to being so.

Thank you! Sorry I may not have been clear enough. I had an internship at a startup this time last year and also worked in a tutoring business throughout this year (things have come to a halt due to corona).

So with my most recent work experience being April 2020 (with some virtual internships, online courses etc) on the GDL (and joining the relevant societies etc) , applying for Autumn Vacation schemes - is that a good foundation to build upon?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you! Sorry I may not have been clear enough. I had an internship at a startup this time last year and also worked in a tutoring business throughout this year (things have come to a halt due to corona).

So with my most recent work experience being April 2020 (with some virtual internships, online courses etc) on the GDL (and joining the relevant societies etc) , applying for Autumn Vacation schemes - is that a good foundation to build upon?

Yes - all positive things for an application.

 

[ath120]

Hey Jessica! What would be your advice in regards to following up via email to thank a Partner who interviewed me at a virtual assessment centre? All other comms have been via graduate recruitment, but the Partner mentioned at the end of the interview that I could find her email address online if I wanted to ask anything further/contact her. I'm not sure what the protocol is here. Hope you can help - thanks!

 

[IntrepidL]

Thank you, Jessica! I was also wondering if it is possible to apply for a paralegal position and a TC position at the same firm? In the event that I do not manage to get a TC this year, I was hoping to have a plan B and fill the following year with some work experience, but I am not sure if firms normally allow both TC and paralegal applications.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey Jessica! What would be your advice in regards to following up via email to thank a Partner who interviewed me at a virtual assessment centre? All other comms have been via graduate recruitment, but the Partner mentioned at the end of the interview that I could find her email address online if I wanted to ask anything further/contact her. I'm not sure what the protocol is here. Hope you can help - thanks!

you can contact them, especially if they have offered. Just keep the email short, even if you are asking questions. Too many “thank you” emails are just waffle/rambling.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you, Jessica! I was also wondering if it is possible to apply for a paralegal position and a TC position at the same firm? In the event that I do not manage to get a TC this year, I was hoping to have a plan B and fill the following year with some work experience, but I am not sure if firms normally allow both TC and paralegal applications.

I think you have to be careful here - it does depend on the firm though (eg have they a history of converting paralegals to trainees then more so).

Generally I say to only apply for paralegal roles and trainee roles if the previous is a temp/contract role. There is little sense in applying to a permanent paralegal role if you are looking to shift to a trainee role as soon as possible (assuming you have completed the LPC).

 

[ath120]

you can contact them, especially if they have offered. Just keep the email short, even if you are asking questions. Too many “thank you” emails are just waffle/rambling.

Thanks Jessica - I don't have any specific questions to follow up with, would it still be worth sending a short thank you?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks Jessica - I don't have any specific questions to follow up with, would it still be worth sending a short thank you?

yes - if you want to.

 

[Ibrahim]

Hi Jessica,

I have just graduated and now I am starting my LPC this September.

I am quite curious to know if it matters to the firm at which university you complete your LPC? My university has a good reputation for LPC/GDL courses but I am also tempted to go to the University of Law/BPP as they are better known. Any advice would be highly appreciated

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I have just graduated and now I am starting my LPC this September.

I am quite curious to know if it matters to the firm at which university you complete your LPC? My university has a good reputation for LPC/GDL courses but I am also tempted to go to the University of Law/BPP as they are better known. Any advice would be highly appreciated

It doesn’t matter really. The only reason firms have a preference for providers is where they sponsor students through the course and they get a cheap/discounted rate for putting multiple people through the same course with the same provider and where the course can tailored to the firm’s specific requirements.

It’s not an issue if you decide to study elsewhere though - just consider which optional modules you can take. Some universities courses have a lot less flexibility and may not provide some more of the commercial modules. This could be the only reason why a firm looks less favourably on a particular LPC course.

 

[LegalNim]

Hi Jessica,
I have a number of questions, I hope that's ok?
1. I applied to Freshfields for their Spring Open Day (which I believe was cancelled in the end). I didn't receive a confirmation email so I emailed them to check and they said they had received it - this was back in March. I didn't hear anything else and assumed that because it was cancelled, they just weren't getting back to people.
Then, months later, I discovered that there were some issues with my email account blocking things (not going to spam or junk, literally blocking things). I eventually got my email provider to send those emails on and found an invitation to the WG (that I'd obviously just completely ghosted them on). I've applied for their TC and I informed them of the situation with my email provider and that I obviously wasn't just not bothering.
I'm concerned that this will mean they rule out my application for a TC - what do you think?
2. I had a VS interview with a firm last cycle but I was really ill (I discharged from hospital against medical advice to go to the interview). It was with a firm where I'd have previous work experience and been on a mentoring scheme. In the interview, I performed really poorly and when I stood up at the end I lost my balance and fell against a wall. Obviously I was rejected. I've applied for their direct TC this year. Their website doesn't say anything about not considering candidates who have previously applied or got to certain stages. Do you think that this will prevent them from considering my application?
3. Do firms consider mitigating circumstances with any real weight? I have ABBC at A Level with pretty substantial mitigating circumstances. For firms that accept ABB or don't have A Level requirements, I've never been rejected at the application stage. But for firms that require AAB, I've been rejected at the application stage by every single one. Do you think it's just a coincidence or do firms just really not care about mitigation?
Thanks Jessica.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,
I have a number of questions, I hope that's ok?
1. I applied to Freshfields for their Spring Open Day (which I believe was cancelled in the end). I didn't receive a confirmation email so I emailed them to check and they said they had received it - this was back in March. I didn't hear anything else and assumed that because it was cancelled, they just weren't getting back to people.
Then, months later, I discovered that there were some issues with my email account blocking things (not going to spam or junk, literally blocking things). I eventually got my email provider to send those emails on and found an invitation to the WG (that I'd obviously just completely ghosted them on). I've applied for their TC and I informed them of the situation with my email provider and that I obviously wasn't just not bothering.
I'm concerned that this will mean they rule out my application for a TC - what do you think?
2. I had a VS interview with a firm last cycle but I was really ill (I discharged from hospital against medical advice to go to the interview). It was with a firm where I'd have previous work experience and been on a mentoring scheme. In the interview, I performed really poorly and when I stood up at the end I lost my balance and fell against a wall. Obviously I was rejected. I've applied for their direct TC this year. Their website doesn't say anything about not considering candidates who have previously applied or got to certain stages. Do you think that this will prevent them from considering my application?
3. Do firms consider mitigating circumstances with any real weight? I have ABBC at A Level with pretty substantial mitigating circumstances. For firms that accept ABB or don't have A Level requirements, I've never been rejected at the application stage. But for firms that require AAB, I've been rejected at the application stage by every single one. Do you think it's just a coincidence or do firms just really not care about mitigation?
Thanks Jessica.

1) it won’t impact your TC application. You may want to use another email address though and explain why you are using a different email account in your application.

2) No - would only be an issue if they said you couldn’t reapply. Where they aware you were ill on the day?

3) It depends on the mitigating circumstance and how you explain them. Not all mitigating circumstances are equal, nor is how they are described or backed up with evidence. It is most likely a coincidence though

 

[LegalNim]

1) it won’t impact your TC application. You may want to use another email address though and explain why you are using a different email account in your application.

2) No - would only be an issue if they said you couldn’t reapply. Where they aware you were ill on the day?

3) It depends on the mitigating circumstance and how you explain them. Not all mitigating circumstances are equal, nor is how they are described or backed up with evidence. It is most likely a coincidence though

Thanks Jessica
1. Yes, used a different email and checked that I received the confirmation email.
2. I didn't tell them on the day that I was ill but they knew I'd been in hospital because I'd missed a mentoring session. I mentioned on my new application under the section about whether I'd previously applied to the firm.
3. I'm not sure how to provide evidence of my mitigating circumstances because there isn't anywhere on the applications to attach it. I have medical letters and discharge notes and things like that which I could provide if requested.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks Jessica
1. Yes, used a different email and checked that I received the confirmation email.
2. I didn't tell them on the day that I was ill but they knew I'd been in hospital because I'd missed a mentoring session. I mentioned on my new application under the section about whether I'd previously applied to the firm.
3. I'm not sure how to provide evidence of my mitigating circumstances because there isn't anywhere on the applications to attach it. I have medical letters and discharge notes and things like that which I could provide if requested.

you don’t have to provide evidence in an application, you just need to be able to say you can provide evidence of it. Typically medical evidence is less relevant, if anything an academic reference that suggests you would have obtained higher grades if it wasn’t for the circumstances typically hold greater weight.

 

[Avaline]

Hi Jessica,

I am an international student who has a TC at a firm who is willing to sponsor a Tier 2 visa for me. I understand that this may vary from firm to firm, but can I ask whether it is standard practice for sponsoring firms to pay the visa application and NHS fees? I was always under the presumption that my firm would cover this, but I have just been asked to submit the form by myself (which would mean paying the visa application fee and the NHS fee).

I'm not in any way complaining or upset, just genuinely curious!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I am an international student who has a TC at a firm who is willing to sponsor a Tier 2 visa for me. I understand that this may vary from firm to firm, but can I ask whether it is standard practice for sponsoring firms to pay the visa application and NHS fees? I was always under the presumption that my firm would cover this, but I have just been asked to submit the form by myself (which would mean paying the visa application fee and the NHS fee).

I'm not in any way complaining or upset, just genuinely curious!

They won't pay the NHS fees, that's your responsibility. They will pay the visa fees though (they have to as sponsors) - that's how its worked with most companies I have worked for anyway. Having read up on it, it seems it is very much down to the agreement between you and your employer though as to who covers the fees, and so I would check your offer letter for the terms and conditions related to this, and if it isn't mentioned in your offer letter (which would be highly surprising) as the firm to confirm which costs you will need to cover and which ones you will.

You may have to pay for your Tier 4 student visa though if they are sponsoring you through the LPC. You may also need to pay for any dependents.

 

[Avaline]

They won't pay the NHS fees, that's your responsibility. They will pay the visa fees though (they have to as sponsors) - that's how its worked with most companies I have worked for anyway. Having read up on it, it seems it is very much down to the agreement between you and your employer though as to who covers the fees, and so I would check your offer letter for the terms and conditions related to this, and if it isn't mentioned in your offer letter (which would be highly surprising) as the firm to confirm which costs you will need to cover and which ones you will.

You may have to pay for your Tier 4 student visa though if they are sponsoring you through the LPC. You may also need to pay for any dependents.

I've paid for my Tier 4 student visa as I studied the LPC this year, and am underway with the Tier 2 application process.

Just read through my offer letter and there is no indication of anything regarding visa costs, and the only conditions stipulated are those on my part relating to my studies. The firm has simply told me that I will be responsible for submitting the form and booking the appointment, so I guess I'll just have to pick up the costs.

Thank you so much anyway for your advice!