Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[AgentNilPois]

Hi Jessica,

I have A* A D at Alevel, 2:1 from
Non-Russell Group (ex-poly), and have a decent amount of legal work experience both commercial and non-commercial.

I am worried about my ambitions of wanting to join a City firm, particularly US firms, because of my A-level grades.

I like the work US firms do, often complicated, finance-heavy and international in scope.

I believe I have a strong mitigating circumstance for not achieving well on the module which I obtained a D for - I had no formal teaching as my school couldn’t find a replacement teacher once they took maternity when that A-level started. That said, I came out as the highest overall achiever in my year at my sixth form obtaining one of the best set of grades for my year on completion. Not to mention the subject area I got a D in I achieved a first class mark for on a similar module at university.

What are your thoughts about this? I am absolutely keen on obtaining a training contract with US firm (if I can).

Also, what are your thoughts on showing confidence at assessment centres (if you struggle with anxiety). How would you suggest overcoming the fear of working in groups and communicating with people (that said I am a fee-earner at present and have no trouble communicating with clients or colleagues, just in large group assessments like those during ACs induce my anxiety badly)?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I have A* A D at Alevel, 2:1 from
Non-Russell Group (ex-poly), and have a decent amount of legal work experience both commercial and non-commercial.

I am worried about my ambitions of wanting to join a City firm, particularly US firms, because of my A-level grades.

I like the work US firms do, often complicated, finance-heavy and international in scope.

I believe I have a strong mitigating circumstance for not achieving well on the module which I obtained a D for - I had no formal teaching as my school couldn’t find a replacement teacher once they took maternity when that A-level started. That said, I came out as the highest overall achiever in my year at my sixth form obtaining one of the best set of grades for my year on completion. Not to mention the subject area I got a D in I achieved a first class mark for on a similar module at university.

What are your thoughts about this? I am absolutely keen on obtaining a training contract with US firm (if I can).

Also, what are your thoughts on showing confidence at assessment centres (if you struggle with anxiety). How would you suggest overcoming the fear of working in groups and communicating with people (that said I am a fee-earner at present and have no trouble communicating with clients or colleagues, just in large group assessments like those during ACs induce my anxiety badly)?

Have you applied to any of the firms you are aiming for, and explained the mitigating circumstances? If so, what stages have you got to?

What do you think triggers your anxiety?

 

[Helena]

So many firms have said their TC places are full after VS allocations. For those of us who cannot do VS for various reasons, do you think the winter window for apps could be a better possible option?

 

[Jessica Booker]

So many firms have said their TC places are full after VS allocations. For those of us who cannot do VS for various reasons, do you think the winter window for apps could be a better possible option?

That is quite common - definitely consider winter schemes if you can. If you have other commitments, even Open Days with the firms you want to apply to can help instead.

 

[Josie]

Hi Jessica,

I am about to go into my third year studying law at a RG uni. I've achieved 2:1s and 1sts so far with a current average of 78 and have lots of work experience (both commercial and private client) and extra curricular activities. However my GCSEs are average and I achieved ABC at A Level which I'm worried will significantly hold me back from the bigger London firms with a minimum AAB requirement.

I understand that most firms no longer screen applications and review them holistically but in your opinion do you think I would stand a chance at the bigger firms e.g silver circle, regional and US if I submitted strong application answers?

In previous applications I have mentioned some personal family circumstances that occured during my A Levels and that moving unexpectedly led me to have to travel nearly 2 hours to and from college, however I don't think they class as MCs as I have nothing to prove them from my college or exam board. Would you suggest leaving them out or adding them to the 'additional information' box provided in applications?

Many thanks in advance

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I am about to go into my third year studying law at a RG uni. I've achieved 2:1s and 1sts so far with a current average of 78 and have lots of work experience (both commercial and private client) and extra curricular activities. However my GCSEs are average and I achieved ABC at A Level which I'm worried will significantly hold me back from the bigger London firms with a minimum AAB requirement.

I understand that most firms no longer screen applications and review them holistically but in your opinion do you think I would stand a chance at the bigger firms e.g silver circle, regional and US if I submitted strong application answers?

In previous applications I have mentioned some personal family circumstances that occured during my A Levels and that moving unexpectedly led me to have to travel nearly 2 hours to and from college, however I don't think they class as MCs as I have nothing to prove them from my college or exam board. Would you suggest leaving them out or adding them to the 'additional information' box provided in applications?

Many thanks in advance

They are MCs if it’s two hours each way - not so much if it’s an hour each way (lots of people experience similar journeys to college).

Question: Would you fall under any contextualised recruitment factors?

For anyone in your situation, you need to speak to firms directly. Get their gauge on whether to apply or not. You are always going to get a PC answer, but there’s a big difference between “you should definitely apply if you have X, Y and Z” to “you could apply, but it is really competitive”.

 

[Lumree]

Hi Jessica,

What would you say the pros and cons are of applying for a training contract whilst working in a commercial law firm? (i.e. as a paralegal)

In my view, the pros are gaining experience and skills relevant to a trainee role, but I wonder what the cons, if any, might be from a recruiter's perspective?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

What would you say the pros and cons are of applying for a training contract whilst working in a commercial law firm? (i.e. as a paralegal)

In my view, the pros are gaining experience and skills relevant to a trainee role, but I wonder what the cons, if any, might be from a recruiter's perspective?

Paralegals typically have already completed their legal education. The biggest downside is most firms are recruiting 2-3 years in advance, when you could start a training contract tomorrow if you have completed the LPC. Firms get nervous about that time gap - you could qualify in that time with another firm or you could take the equivalent means process, so why are you going to wait for this firm? There can also be a question of “why haven’t you got/why won’t you get a TC with the firm you are currently working at?”

The SQE could change all of the above though - especially where firms and trainees don’t have to commit to two years, which will mean more immediate supply and demand opportunities will arise.

Biggest downside for the candidate is juggling a job and applications. Students will typically be much more time rich than someone working - meaning they have more time to make considered applications and go to careers events etc.

 

[Lumree]

Paralegals typically have already completed their legal education. The biggest downside is most firms are recruiting 2-3 years in advance, when you could start a training contract tomorrow if you have completed the LPC. Firms get nervous about that time gap - you could qualify in that time with another firm or you could take the equivalent means process, so why are you going to wait for this firm? There can also be a question of “why haven’t you got/why won’t you get a TC with the firm you are currently working at?”

The SQE could change all of the above though - especially where firms and trainees don’t have to commit to two years, which will mean more immediate supply and demand opportunities will arise.

Biggest downside for the candidate is juggling a job and applications. Students will typically be much more time rich than someone working - meaning they have more time to make considered applications and go to careers events etc.

It’s almost as if there’s more risk in taking on a person in that position.

Is there anything a candidate can do to convince the firm they are, and would continue to remain committed to that firm if they were awarded a training contract?

 

[Jessica Booker]

It’s almost as if there’s more risk in taking on a person in that position.

Is there anything a candidate can do to convince the firm they are, and would continue to remain committed to that firm if they were awarded a training contract?

There’s risks with any candidate. It’s just the logic/suitability of keeping someone in the shelf for 2-3 years.

It’s not that they have to remain committed - it’s more showing there’s logic in waiting (in all honesty, I’m rarely convinced there is when it’s 3 years).

 

[Lumree]

There’s risks with any candidate. It’s just the logic/suitability of keeping someone in the shelf for 2-3 years.

It’s not that they have to remain committed - it’s more showing there’s logic in waiting (in all honesty, I’m rarely convinced there is when it’s 3 years).

Thanks Jessica.

One last question, I hope you don’t mind!

I know you can’t speak for every firm, but say a candidate was successful for a training contract 2 years in advance, could they start at an earlier date if a position opened up - or is that a logistical nightmare?

I understand how the SQE may resolve some of these issues, but for candidates like me who are stuck between coming to the end of my studies (LPC) and being in a position to apply via the traditional route, going for training contract applications sounds better than waiting to see how SQE pans out.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks Jessica.

One last question, I hope you don’t mind!

I know you can’t speak for every firm, but say a candidate was successful for a training contract 2 years in advance, could they start at an earlier date if a position opened up - or is that a logistical nightmare?

I understand how the SQE may resolve some of these issues, but for candidates like me who are stuck between coming to the end of my studies (LPC) and being in a position to apply via the traditional route, going for training contract applications sounds better than waiting to see how SQE pans out.

It is possible but the chances of it are dependent on many variable factors - defining your chances even within one firm is really difficult. How opportunities to start earlier arise:

Increase on trainee headcount
People withdrawing from the process
People failing the LPC
People choosing to defer due to personal circumstances.

However you don’t know how many people are in the queue ahead of you to start earlier. Most firms work on a waiting list basis - but one year my waiting list across 5 intakes was over 25 people. So there is never a guarantee of it - and that’s part of the issue too many applicants who could start earlier assume they can (and will).

The problem is with you theory is that if anything this is not the case. If you wait for a 2022 start date, you are more than likely going to need to complete the SQE.

 

[Lumree]

It is possible but the chances of it are dependent on many variable factors - defining your chances even within one firm is really difficult. How opportunities to start earlier arise:

Increase on trainee headcount
People withdrawing from the process
People failing the LPC
People choosing to defer due to personal circumstances.

However you don’t know how many people are in the queue ahead of you to start earlier. Most firms work on a waiting list basis - but one year my waiting list across 5 intakes was over 25 people. So there is never a guarantee of it - and that’s part of the issue too many applicants who could start earlier assume they can (and will).

The problem is with you theory is that if anything this is not the case. If you wait for a 2022 start date, you are more than likely going to need to complete the SQE.

I am due to finish the LPC in 2020. For someone in that position, am I better off waiting for the SQE to arrive and seeing how firms respond to it?

The trouble I have with that is it leaves me in limbo from 2020 to 2021, especially as I don't know how the bigger firms are going to adopt SQE as part of their training process. I suppose I could continue gaining experience in 2020-2021, which would go towards the SQE in the end.

Thanks again Jessica, I really appreciate it.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I am due to finish the SQE in 2020. For someone in that position, am I better off waiting for the SQE to arrive and seeing how firms respond to it?

The trouble I have with that is it leaves me in limbo from 2020 to 2021, especially as I don't know how the bigger firms are going to adopt SQE as part of their training process. I suppose I could continue gaining experience in 2020-2021, which would go towards the SQE in the end.

Thanks again Jessica, I really appreciate it.

How can you be finishing it in 2020 if you need to wait for it to arrive?

 

[Lumree]

How can you be finishing it in 2020 if you need to wait for it to arrive?

My error, that was meant to say LPC. Sorry!

 

[Jessica Booker]

My error, that was meant to say LPC. Sorry!

You don’t have to make a choice and the firm you get a TC with might make it for you.

But I’d be sat there going - “why would this person who has got the potential to meet the QWE part of the SQE earlier, and potentially pass both assessment stages and qualify by 2022, want to wait until 2022 to even start a training contract”.

 

[camjames]

Hi Jessica,

When writing applications for firms that I have had the chance to meet/network with etc., I find it a little easier to answer "why us?" in the application. I think I let myself down when answering the question when I haven't got a real, personal connection with the firm.

As a recruiter, what things do you look for that make an application stand out when an applicant hasn't had a chance to meet the firm? What things show genuine research? I'm always worried certain things won't sound sincere, or are too generic.

Thank you for all the advice given already!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

When writing applications for firms that I have had the chance to meet/network with etc., I find it a little easier to answer "why us?" in the application. I think I let myself down when answering the question when I haven't got a real, personal connection with the firm.

As a recruiter, what things do you look for that make an application stand out when an applicant hasn't had a chance to meet the firm? What things show genuine research? I'm always worried certain things won't sound sincere, or are too generic.

Thank you for all the advice given already!

You don’t have to show “genuine” research (I’m not sure there is such a thing) - you have to show you know what you are letting yourself in for and why you are going to be motivated by it. It’s not really what you say, it’s more how you say it.

Trying to fit into a box or trying to fit into what you think someone is looking for is probably the best way to end up “generic”

 

[AgentNilPois]

Have you applied to any of the firms you are aiming for, and explained the mitigating circumstances? If so, what stages have you got to?

What do you think triggers your anxiety?

I have, I’ve progressed to the latter stages for national firms and a few big international ones but so far no luck with ACs and Vac Schemes (I’ve done one Vac Scheme at a City firm about 2/3 years ago). I’ve given it a shot at a few were I’ve not met the Alevel standard and made it to the phone/video interview stages but am not sure whether that was just part of the process before they reviewed the application altogether.

I’m not entirely sure what triggers the anxiety but I think it’s confidence related but I may have to have better think about the triggers.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I have, I’ve progressed to the latter stages for national firms and a few big international ones but so far no luck with ACs and Vac Schemes (I’ve done one Vac Scheme at a City firm about 2/3 years ago). I’ve given it a shot at a few were I’ve not met the Alevel standard and made it to the phone/video interview stages but am not sure whether that was just part of the process before they reviewed the application altogether.

I’m not entirely sure what triggers the anxiety but I think it’s confidence related but I may have to have better think about the triggers.

If you are making it to the next stage of the recruitment process they are seeing enough in your application to look beyond grades. Your answers are going to be the deciding factor beyond that point.

It’s probably worthwhile closely analysing what your triggers are. If you are not getting them in the work place, try to take the attitude of whatever assessment you are going into is just another piece of work you’d be doing in your day job.