Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[Jessica Booker]

Hi, Jessica! I hope that you are well. I was wondering if it is better to apply for a winter vacation scheme or a direct training contract if both have similar deadlines. For example, A&O has opened its winter vac scheme app early this year along with TC app. Thanks!

Depends on you and the firm. It won’t have anything to do with deadlines, it will come down to how you want to spend your winter (and how many other potential winter vac schemes you are applying to) as well as the ratio of vac scheme places to training contract places the firm has.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica

Welcome and thank you for taking the time to answer all our questions. I have been a paralegal just over 2 and a half years now and have worked in litigation, corporate, commercial and now going into real estate. I have not yet obtained a TC but have more than enough legal experience (6-18 months in each area) in areas that most training contracts cover.

Bit of a hypothetical question which is mainly coming from being frustrated with not yet getting a TC. What is your opinion on those that qualify without a TC? Will City firms always question why I qualified through the equivalent means route and not through the traditional TC way if i go for NQE positions in the future?

It’s not about whether you have enough experience, it’s the quality of it. Would you say your work has consistently been at the level of a trainee within the type of firms you would hope to work for as a NQ?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Yep definitely! I worked at an international firm and now work for a big national firm doing quality trainee level work, just as a paralegal.

Then it becomes less of an issue. At NQ level, they will be looking more at the work you did and how you explain it on a CV/at interview. Equivalent means qualification is not necessarily straight forward though - and you might want to wait for the SQE given that will replace the equivalent means process anyway.

 

[Laurence]

Hi Jessica. Im an incoming LPC student and have never done a vac scheme before, nor worked in a large commercial firm. I've only worked in small high-street firms with no commercial practice and medium-sized commercial firms but the quality of work I had wasn't great. My question is given that I've never been exposed to a commercial setting as the ones im applying for, how can I convince the recruiter that I am a good fit for a vac scheme/training contract at the particular firm? How can I bridge the gap between my previous high-street experience with a large commercial firm?
Moreover, as a recent graduate with some legal work experiences, I don't have any noteworthy results/achievements to highlight to date. How would you suggest I Show im an excellent candidate, considering, on paper, im more of a "doer" rather than an "achiever"?
It is also worth noting I didn't have great a-levels, didn't win prizes so I have no academic excellence to show off. Would you advise against applying to magic/silver circle/us firms considering I wouldn't meet their minimum requirements?
Thanks in advance!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica. Im an incoming LPC student and have never done a vac scheme before, nor worked in a large commercial firm. I've only worked in small high-street firms with no commercial practice and medium-sized commercial firms but the quality of work I had wasn't great. My question is given that I've never been exposed to a commercial setting as the ones im applying for, how can I convince the recruiter that I am a good fit for a vac scheme/training contract at the particular firm? How can I bridge the gap between my previous high-street experience with a large commercial firm?
Moreover, as a recent graduate with some legal work experiences, I don't have any noteworthy results/achievements to highlight to date. How would you suggest I Show im an excellent candidate, considering, on paper, im more of a "doer" rather than an "achiever"?
It is also worth noting I didn't have great a-levels, didn't win prizes so I have no academic excellence to show off. Would you advise against applying to magic/silver circle/us firms considering I wouldn't meet their minimum requirements?
Thanks in advance!

What are you A-Level grades? Would you meet any contextualised recruitment processes?

Let me turn this question around to you. How would you show you are an excellent candidate?

Maybe start building up some more commercial experience - open days, careers events (eg CityLawLive / Legal Cheek events) would be a good way to start this off.

 

[Lumree]

Hi Jessica,

This might be too vague a question, and if it is, apologies!

I am hoping to reapply to a firms when they open up again in Autumn. I applied for these firms in the past 6 months and I was wondering if I would be allowed to re apply?

I’ve heard conflicting stories with some saying you can only apply to the firm once in 12 months, and others saying it’s just once for every application season. Is there a correct way or does it really depend on the firm?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

This might be too vague a question, and if it is, apologies!

I am hoping to reapply to a firms when they open up again in Autumn. I applied for these firms in the past 6 months and I was wondering if I would be allowed to re apply?

I’ve heard conflicting stories with some saying you can only apply to the firm once in 12 months, and others saying it’s just once for every application season. Is there a correct way or does it really depend on the firm?

Depends on the firm. Best you speak to them directly to get clarity - there won’t be a one size fits all answer to this question.

 

[PHT]

Hi Jessica, what are the thoughts on the SQE from a graduate recruitment perspective? Will it ‘open the floodgates’ and increase competition further? Do you think firms will still opt for GDL/LPC until they are phased out completely and will there still be TCs or will the QWE stage take a different form?

Obviously there is still much confusion around the SQE but would be interested to hear your insight.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica, what are the thoughts on the SQE from a graduate recruitment perspective? Will it ‘open the floodgates’ and increase competition further? Do you think firms will still opt for GDL/LPC until they are phased out completely and will there still be TCs or will the QWE stage take a different form?

Obviously there is still much confusion around the SQE but would be interested to hear your insight.

There’s a lot of positives about it, but a lot of negatives too. I probably sit on the side of it being better for everyone, but it could have been executed better by the SRA.

I don’t think it opens the floodgates though. If anything it will help to create more opportunities. Freeing up the 2 year commitment is a major positive, both from the employers perspective but also the candidates. This currently limits the number of training contracts each year.

TCs will still exist it is just SQE prep will replace the GDL/LPC. Think most firms are looking to make the transition to the SQE earlier rather than later, although the fact the SRA still haven’t got any confirmation of what the assessments will be, let alone how someone can sit them means many are having to wait until there is clarity. But many firms will have TCs but also bring in short term contract grads who could accumulate their QWE across different firms. If it was me, I’d love to do a TC across multiple firms and work out which one I wanted to work for long term.

The system will become much more like what happen with accounting firms. The bigger players in the market will offer graduate programmes designed to get you through the professional training and qualifications - however, if you fail (unlike now), expect to be kicked out. One of the major flaws of current training contracts is you can’t really enforce probation periods or get rid of someone if they aren’t meeting the required standards - that will be one of the major changes with the new system. Smaller firms will expect people to get the professional qualifications themselves, but that’s no different than what they do with the LPC now.

Qualification will ultimately become a more difficult process to complete (there will be much higher fail rates) but there will be more opportunities to become qualified. There will also be a Trainee purgatory - people who accumulate the necessary QWE but can’t pass the SQE assessments, so can’t qualify.

 

[Pallatablelawyer]

Looking forward to getting started!

Hello Jessica,

Welcome! I am pretty late here ! I just wanted to ask, I am incoming Durham Masters student with a 2:1 degree from Essex. I am really worried about my background and how it will affect my training contract applications. In my first and second year, I achieved 2:2s. Mainly being because I was banned from Using university services due to non-payment of tuition. You see, I am an international student and when I came here Nigeria fell into an economic crisis. The naira moved from 250N to £1, to N600 to a £1 .. my parents wages did not move. My father has 5 children and I am the first, so it was virtually impossible to pay tuition or pay rent. My fees were usually borrowed a certain amount at a time and it took a long time to secure because banks refused to give loans during such a tumultous period. My fees were only paid a few weeks till end of terms. Interestingly enough I was allowed to submit essays and write exams. So i usually conducted my own work myself, sometimes I starved for days it was brutal. Anyways, in final year things improved, but I lost my uncle & grandfather during the year. It was really hard but I had to get on with it the same way i got on with the last few years. So I got a few high firsts,78,76 and a few decent 2:1s, 62-65s, and I finished with a 64 for the year.

Now within all that struggle, I graduated with a University award for leadership, was a volunteer football coach,president of the black social political society, volunteered at a justice centre. Luckily, I also did legal work experience at a small firm in central London, and Ropes &Gray(not a vac scheme). I did all this because I couldnt sit in my room starving and crying and lwt myself fall deeper into that depressing period it was. I am now going into this masters with the firm determination that I need to get a first, and i need to get on winter, easter and summer vac schemes. I am wondering, will my grades hold me back? Cause I am also looking to secure a training contract here. I am really interested in working on global transactions, the likes of which I wont have access to in my Home country. Quite frankly, I am not a fan of the legal system there.

Anyways, If my grades will hold me back from securing a vac scheme, or a training contract, would perfect grades on the masters plus legal volunteering on the masters help? I am a really determined to get a training contract but it would be nice to know if my doors are already closed before they open or not. I am a big believer in opening other doors, so i am not phased by a door being closed too. I hope this was not too long.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hello Jessica,

Welcome! I am pretty late here ! I just wanted to ask, I am incoming Durham Masters student with a 2:1 degree from Essex. I am really worried about my background and how it will affect my training contract applications. In my first and second year, I achieved 2:2s. Mainly being because I was banned from Using university services due to non-payment of tuition. You see, I am an international student and when I came here Nigeria fell into an economic crisis. The naira moved from 250N to £1, to N600 to a £1 .. my parents wages did not move. My father has 5 children and I am the first, so it was virtually impossible to pay tuition or pay rent. My fees were usually borrowed a certain amount at a time and it took a long time to secure because banks refused to give loans during such a tumultous period. My fees were only paid a few weeks till end of terms. Interestingly enough I was allowed to submit essays and write exams. So i usually conducted my own work myself, sometimes I starved for days it was brutal. Anyways, in final year things improved, but I lost my uncle & grandfather during the year. It was really hard but I had to get on with it the same way i got on with the last few years. So I got a few high firsts,78,76 and a few decent 2:1s, 62-65s, and I finished with a 64 for the year.

Now within all that struggle, I graduated with a University award for leadership, was a volunteer football coach,president of the black social political society, volunteered at a justice centre. Luckily, I also did legal work experience at a small firm in central London, and Ropes &Gray(not a vac scheme). I did all this because I couldnt sit in my room starving and crying and lwt myself fall deeper into that depressing period it was. I am now going into this masters with the firm determination that I need to get a first, and i need to get on winter, easter and summer vac schemes. I am wondering, will my grades hold me back? Cause I am also looking to secure a training contract here. I am really interested in working on global transactions, the likes of which I wont have access to in my Home country. Quite frankly, I am not a fan of the legal system there.

Anyways, If my grades will hold me back from securing a vac scheme, or a training contract, would perfect grades on the masters plus legal volunteering on the masters help? I am a really determined to get a training contract but it would be nice to know if my doors are already closed before they open or not. I am a big believer in opening other doors, so i am not phased by a door being closed too. I hope this was not too long.

You need to explain the mitigating circumstances regarding not having access to your university due to tuition fee complications (that’s as short as it needs to be).

Then the grades do not become an issue. Your final year grades show how strong your academics can be without those circumstances.

 

[JoNo]

Hi @Jessica Booker

I am not sure if this question has already been answered. But, I am looking to apply again to the two firms I applied to last year. I reached the AC stage for both firms (Norton Rose and Slaughters). Do you think my application will still be considered? As I have heard sometimes law firms do not accept people who have attended their AC’s already.

Thanks Jessica!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker

I am not sure if this question has already been answered. But, I am looking to apply again to the two firms I applied to last year. I reached the AC stage for both firms (Norton Rose and Slaughters). Do you think my application will still be considered? As I have heard sometimes law firms do not accept people who have attended their AC’s already.

Thanks Jessica!

I don’t know either firm’s policy on reapplying - you’ll need to check with them as to whether they allow you to.

If you can, just be mindful to show off how you have developed since your AC, particularly in the areas in which you may have been given feedback on. You can even be as bold to state given the feedback they gave you, you have improved in that area by doing X or Y.

Firms only tend to be a bit reluctant to interview someone again if they don’t think anything has changed since their last application/interview.

 

[LawGal]

Hi Jessica,

I came across this question: What are you expecting to gain from a career in law?
Is this similar to the 'Where do you see yourself in 5 years time?' question? My answers to both questions seem to be similar e.g. building a certain skill-set and client base.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I came across this question: What are you expecting to gain from a career in law?
Is this similar to the 'Where do you see yourself in 5 years time?' question? My answers to both questions seem to be similar e.g. building a certain skill-set and client base.

Not similar as such - but there could be similar themes depending on your personal expectations.

The first question could cover the first 0-5 years, or beyond. The second one doesn’t really.

To me the first question is much more about your motivations - what’s going to keep you happy, focused etc. The second question is much more about do you have a realistic understanding or expectation of where you could be in five years (for most firms, five years’ time would only be a NQ given you’d not start your TC for another 3).

 

[Helena]

Hi @Jessica Booker
Thank you for all your Advice and help so far. Regarding hearing back from firms post TC interview, If the firm states that the applications are rolling should you expect to hear within a week or 10 days of your interview? Or are they likely to consider all the interviews together and then make a decision? Sorry it may seem like a really silly question but the wait is agonising. Thank you

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker
Thank you for all your Advice and help so far. Regarding hearing back from firms post TC interview, If the firm states that the applications are rolling should you expect to hear within a week or 10 days of your interview? Or are they likely to consider all the interviews together and then make a decision? Sorry it may seem like a really silly question but the wait is agonising. Thank you

Rolling applications doesn’t necessarily mean rolling interviews - they are two very different parts of a process.

I can’t give you a definitive answer on this. It can even vary at the same firm, dependent on where they are up to with offers or whether they have to factor in things like decline rates (there tends to be a spike in offers mid September as many candidates can hold multiple offers until the 16th September).

If you have waited 10 working days or more, then call the firm up and ask for an update as to when you will hear. As long as you are polite, it’s not going to be an issue at all if you do ask. Don’t email - a phone call is much quicker/efficient/appropriate.

Best thing to do at the interview is ask when you will find out the outcome and then manage your patience from there.

 

[Helena]

Rolling applications doesn’t necessarily mean rolling interviews - they are two very different parts of a process.

I can’t give you a definitive answer on this. It can even vary at the same firm, dependent on where they are up to with offers or whether they have to factor in things like decline rates (there tends to be a spike in offers mid September as many candidates can hold multiple offers until the 16th September).

If you have waited 10 working days or more, then call the firm up and ask for an update as to when you will hear. As long as you are polite, it’s not going to be an issue at all if you do ask. Don’t email - a phone call is much quicker/efficient/appropriate.

Best thing to do at the interview is ask when you will find out the outcome and then manage your patience from there.

Many thanks for your reply. I really appreciate it.

 

[Serah O]

Hi Jess, when an application question ask for a recent example of something, how recent should the example be? For example, within a year or 6 months?
Thanks.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jess, when an application question ask for a recent example of something, how recent should the example be? For example, within a year or 6 months?
Thanks.

Anywhere up to 18 months would be fine from my perspective.

The thing with older examples is that you should always ask yourself, if I was in that situation now would I have dealt with it very differently. If the answer is yes, it probably isn’t the right example to use.