Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[Jesh]

Hi Jessica

I graduated from Sheffield University with a 2:1 and a Commendation in my LPC. I worked as a Legal Advisor in Sheffield for a large national law firm, and then as a paralegal at a medium sized firm in Derby. I have now moved back to London (hometown) to gain city firm law experience whilst I focus on TC apps.

My questions are:

Will having mostly northern academics and legal experience affect my chances on securing a training contract in London?
Would you suggest that it is better to focus TC apps in just the north?
Do you think that me working at a large national firm and then a medium sized firm affect my chances of securing a TC at a large international or US type firm?
I'm now 26 and still without a TC, do you think that being older than a usual second year / fresh graduate affect my chances in securing a TC, as I have it in my mind that firms want to mould you in a certain way from early in your career?

Thank you, and thanks for supporting people like me with this forum.

Rajesh

 

[EEE]

No disadvantage. You have legal work experience though - I just think you are under selling it. You also have a lot of work experience that has directly transferable skills.

Look to meet firms on campus in the early Autumn. You may want to consider going to events like CityLawLive too - these are all things that will help you nail the “why commercial law” part of your application. Also keep an eye out for any open days happening in August/September before people go back to uni.

Thank you for the advice! Would you suggest it is better to hold off my vac scheme applications to A&O and CC until I've had more contact with them or is it better to send them off as soon as possible (to also potentially create more time for further applications once they open and allow more time to spend on them over the summer)? My main concern is that since one can only apply once every 12 months, I don't want to jeopardise my opportunity this year with the risk that I don't visibly demonstrate a commitment to law (until I've had more of a chance to attend open days etc in the coming months).

I have a further question about work experience on application forms. I have a lot of experience in student journalism that ranges from on the one hand being Deputy Editor of the university-wide student paper to on the other hand being the editor of a smaller, annual, department-wide student magazine. I'm unsure as to whether these roles would merit a mention as individual work experience entries on an application, or, whether they should be grouped together under 'student journalism', or, whether I shouldn't mention them at all because they were student/committee-type roles. I should mention that I've never done an application for an open day/vac scheme/TC, this will be my first round.

Many thanks in advance!

Edie

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica

I graduated from Sheffield University with a 2:1 and a Commendation in my LPC. I worked as a Legal Advisor in Sheffield for a large national law firm, and then as a paralegal at a medium sized firm in Derby. I have now moved back to London (hometown) to gain city firm law experience whilst I focus on TC apps.

My questions are:

Will having mostly northern academics and legal experience affect my chances on securing a training contract in London?
Would you suggest that it is better to focus TC apps in just the north?
Do you think that me working at a large national firm and then a medium sized firm affect my chances of securing a TC at a large international or US type firm?
I'm now 26 and still without a TC, do you think that being older than a usual second year / fresh graduate affect my chances in securing a TC, as I have it in my mind that firms want to mould you in a certain way from early in your career?

Thank you, and thanks for supporting people like me with this forum.

Rajesh

1) No - no recruiter separates academics by geographical location within the UK. At worst they may question why you want a career in London when you have spent time a lot of time outside of it, but that’s for you to persuade them in your motivational answers but that might be fairly obvious/straight forward if London is your home town.

2) I think you should focus application on where you want to work.

3) No - but again, like question 1) you need to explain why you want to work in a different type of firm.

4) No - the average age of someone qualifying is 29.5 years old, so it sounds like you will be pretty aligned to that average.

Your biggest issue here is that you will have 2-3 years out. The international and US firms you are aiming for are predominately recruiting for 2022 intakes. There is a massive question for recruiters as to whether it is worthwhile you waiting for that to happen when you could qualify within that period elsewhere. This is even more complicated with the SQE coming in - most people going into 2022 intakes will be taking the SQE route.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you for the advice! Would you suggest it is better to hold off my vac scheme applications to A&O and CC until I've had more contact with them or is it better to send them off as soon as possible (to also potentially create more time for further applications once they open and allow more time to spend on them over the summer)? My main concern is that since one can only apply once every 12 months, I don't want to jeopardise my opportunity this year with the risk that I don't visibly demonstrate a commitment to law (until I've had more of a chance to attend open days etc in the coming months).

I have a further question about work experience on application forms. I have a lot of experience in student journalism that ranges from on the one hand being Deputy Editor of the university-wide student paper to on the other hand being the editor of a smaller, annual, department-wide student magazine. I'm unsure as to whether these roles would merit a mention as individual work experience entries on an application, or, whether they should be grouped together under 'student journalism', or, whether I shouldn't mention them at all because they were student/committee-type roles. I should mention that I've never done an application for an open day/vac scheme/TC, this will be my first round.

Many thanks in advance!

Edie

Sending off applications ASAP is where many people go wrong. You need to ensure your application is strong first. It depends on when you think you can meet these firms on campus though - just try to submit your application in the first two thirds of the application window (although CC used to have a policy of not reviewing applications until after the deadline, so if that is still the case, it really doesn’t matter if you applied on the last day of the deadline).

You can draft an application without submitting it if you are concerned about balancing your time.

Personally, I would put both experiences underneath your extra curricular experiences rather than work experience, but as separate entries.

 

[Romiras]

Thank you for the advice! Would you suggest it is better to hold off my vac scheme applications to A&O and CC until I've had more contact with them or is it better to send them off as soon as possible (to also potentially create more time for further applications once they open and allow more time to spend on them over the summer)? My main concern is that since one can only apply once every 12 months, I don't want to jeopardise my opportunity this year with the risk that I don't visibly demonstrate a commitment to law (until I've had more of a chance to attend open days etc in the coming months).

I have a further question about work experience on application forms. I have a lot of experience in student journalism that ranges from on the one hand being Deputy Editor of the university-wide student paper to on the other hand being the editor of a smaller, annual, department-wide student magazine. I'm unsure as to whether these roles would merit a mention as individual work experience entries on an application, or, whether they should be grouped together under 'student journalism', or, whether I shouldn't mention them at all because they were student/committee-type roles. I should mention that I've never done an application for an open day/vac scheme/TC, this will be my first round.

Many thanks in advance!

Edie

Clifford Chance still operates on a non-rolling basis. Although I think firms like Freshfields, although they say they are non-rolling, do appear to look at applications before the deadline closes and have sent interview invites before the deadline has closed. So you'll have to be careful!

 

[E.TX]

The only way to really show you can achieve a 2.1 is to wait until your final results come in. Either that or getting a strong academic reference that’s suggests you will achieve a 2.1. Improving your application is the typical advice - strengthen your experience elsewhere (work experience, extra curriculars, motivation for applying, written style etc).

Thanks Jessica! I was wondering if reference from the personal tutor at university would qualify and what counts as a strong reference?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks Jessica! I was wondering if reference from the personal tutor at university would qualify and what counts as a strong reference?

Yes - that’s about the only thing that would count. Needs to show that your academic referee thinks there is strong chance you will achieve higher grades/can explain why your grades may not have been stronger in a positive light, and is generally supportive of your application

 

[Dos]

1) not an issue at all - plenty of people secure TCs with one or more 2.2 modules at the firms you mention

2) You’ve never had a part time or volunteer job? Your legal work experience is stellar, but things like a “normal” job in retail, hospitality and the like, or working on volunteer projects will have tested your soft skills much more than open days. It’s not that your application will be hindered by not having it, especially if your application is strong elsewhere, but it just brings another dimension to your application.

You’ve got to get rid of the attitude that you are under experienced though - you’ve got a lot going for you with your open days/work shadowing and ECs.

Thank you for answering, it really gave me more perspective.

I've never had a part time job, however I do have few stints of volunteering. This was mainly in college, however at uni I currently volunteer for a legal scheme, which just requires me to research past cases to help attorneys.(although this was only for 2 terms)

Could I leverage my society positions to show how my soft skills developed? I'm currently part of the Law club of my uni, and the finance club, as committee members, and I'm due to achieve two more positions at other societies next year. An associate on TheStudentRoom said how this is importantly desired, I can imagine so, but I would like Grad Rec's insight.

Thanks again Jessica, this thread and your responses are helpful .

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you for answering, it really gave me more perspective.

I've never had a part time job, however I do have few stints of volunteering. This was mainly in college, however at uni I currently volunteer for a legal scheme, which just requires me to research past cases to help attorneys.(although this was only for 2 terms)

Could I leverage my society positions to show how my soft skills developed? I'm currently part of the Law club of my uni, and the finance club, as committee members, and I'm due to achieve two more positions at other societies next year. An associate on TheStudentRoom said how this is importantly desired, I can imagine so, but I would like Grad Rec's insight.

Thanks again Jessica, this thread and your responses are helpful .

Don’t underestimate the value of the volunteering work, especially if you haven’t had a part time job.

Yes - leverage your ECs too. It isn’t really the position that is of interest, more what you did/achieved within it.

 

[wwood]

Hello Jessica! Welcome to the forum!

This question might sound silly - would you recommend applying for a TC at other firms during a vac scheme? Do recruiters communicate across firms?

Thank you

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hello Jessica! Welcome to the forum!

This question might sound silly - would you recommend applying for a TC at other firms during a vac scheme? Do recruiters communicate across firms?

Thank you

I would normally suggest planning around a vacation scheme so you have as little on your plate as possible so you can focus on the vacation scheme.

But there is absolutely no issue with applying to other firms while doing a vac scheme (unless you are applying on their hardware and during their office hours).

Graduate recruiters do not communicate amongst one another. They haven’t got the time not inclination to do so, and also it’s against data protection laws so it would be pretty dodgy from them to do so even if they did (unless the information is in the public domain, like your LinkedIn). But even then, they aren’t going to strike up a conversation about an applicant - they will have far more important things to talk about than whether Joe Bloggs has applied to X firm while at Y firm.

 

[Jaysen]

I would normally suggest planning around a vacation scheme so you have as little on your plate as possible so you can focus on the vacation scheme.

But there is absolutely no issue with applying to other firms while doing a vac scheme (unless you are applying on their hardware and during their office hours).

Graduate recruiters do not communicate amongst one another. They haven’t got the time not inclination to do so, and also it’s against data protection laws so it would be pretty dodgy from them to do so even if they did (unless the information is in the public domain, like your LinkedIn). But even then, they aren’t going to strike up a conversation about an applicant - they will have far more important things to talk about than whether Joe Bloggs has applied to X firm while at Y firm.

It's good to hear that last bit. What is your opinion on candidates reneging on training contract offers? Obviously, it's not great form but are there wider consequences aside from burning bridges with a particular firm?

 

[Abstruser]

Hey Jessica thank you for joining the forum.

I was wondering what are the chances of a non UK law graduate to acquire a training contract, given the fact that he is a qualified lawyer in another European jurisdiction and has done an LLM in London?

Hey, so in my accelerated LPC I know at least three non-UK, non-EU qualified lawyers (studied law in their home countries) who also did LLMs in London/Oxbridge and have gotten TCs with City firms. They were required to do the GDL and now the LPC, both of which were/are sponsored by their firms. So it is definitely not unheard of, though I can't really offer advice on "what are the chances". Hope this helps.

 

[Lumree]

Hi Jessica,

How much would a recruiter take into consideration the logistics of an applicant who is currently/already completed the LPC? I say this because a lot of firms have partnerships with BPP, ULaw etc and require specific modules to be completed. Would an applicant be disadvantaged if he had already completed the LPC and didn't have the required modules?

 

[Jessica Booker]

It's good to hear that last bit. What is your opinion on candidates reneging on training contract offers? Obviously, it's not great form but are there wider consequences aside from burning bridges with a particular firm?

Depends how you renege. If you ghost them, don’t expect them to rush your application through at a later date (eg as a NQ). See enough people decline an offer and then come in at 0-3 years PQE to know it isn’t an automatic no though.

But there’s no consequences outside of the firm you are reneging though. At worst, if the recruiter/interviewer changes firms and just so happens to be the person reviewing your application at a later stage, then it might come back to bite you but even then thats likely to be years down the line, would they really remember?

Recruiters do not talk to one another - there is no centralised black mark system either. These are some of the worst myths out there about graduate recruitment.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

How much would a recruiter take into consideration the logistics of an applicant who is currently/already completed the LPC? I say this because a lot of firms have partnerships with BPP, ULaw etc and require specific modules to be completed. Would an applicant be disadvantaged if he had already completed the LPC and didn't have the required modules?

Depends on the modules. If you chose all the non commercial modules, there could be a question as to why you want a career in commercial law. Not having the exact modules as a sponsored LPC is not really an issue though.

It doesn’t really matter if you start or complete the LPC of your own accord. The questions a recruiter will have though is “why do you want to join my firm in 3 years time, when you could have qualified in that time with another firm?” and “what are you going to do with the time until you join us?”

 

[Dos]

Don’t underestimate the value of the volunteering work, especially if you haven’t had a part time job.

Yes - leverage your ECs too. It isn’t really the position that is of interest, more what you did/achieved within it.

thank u!

 

[ELA]

Depends how you renege. If you ghost them, don’t expect them to rush your application through at a later date (eg as a NQ). See enough people decline an offer and then come in at 0-3 years PQE to know it isn’t an automatic no though.

But there’s no consequences outside of the firm you are reneging though. At worst, if the recruiter/interviewer changes firms and just so happens to be the person reviewing your application at a later stage, then it might come back to bite you but even then thats likely to be years down the line, would they really remember?

Recruiters do not talk to one another - there is no centralised black mark system either. These are some of the worst myths out there about graduate recruitment.

Hi Jessica,

How frequent is it in your experience, for people to accept a TC and say at a later date that they don't want it anymore?

Thank you

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

How frequent is it in your experience, for people to accept a TC and say at a later date that they don't want it anymore?

Thank you

Typically anywhere between 0 - 20%. Depends on the firm, location, the manner in which they recruit (eg times, from vac scheme or not, whether they force people to accept within a limited timeframe etc).

 

[Mishal]

Hi, Jessica! I hope that you are well. I was wondering if it is better to apply for a winter vacation scheme or a direct training contract if both have similar deadlines. For example, A&O has opened its winter vac scheme app early this year along with TC app. Thanks!