Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[Paralegal178]

Only apply if you feel your application is significantly different. There’s little point applying with a similar or the same application. Also make sure you are letting any deadlines/policies as to when you can reapply again.

It’s fine to have specific answers that are the same, although I would always carefully analyse whether the answer can be improved or updated - has anything you have done since your last application helped to improve your knowledge/skill set. If all the answers to all the competency questions were the same, my initial reaction would be “how has this person developed since their last application? What can I see they have done to develop themselves further?”

Hi, I was wondering if this is the case if you made it to assessment centre or final interview?

I.e. the initial application was strong but you need to improve other areas?

Thank you!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi, I was wondering if this is the case if you made it to assessment centre or final interview?

I.e. the initial application was strong but you need to improve other areas?

Thank you!

Still the case.

You ultimately need to show growth/development from your last application.

For instance, take the feedback from your assessment centre, and try to highlight how you have developed in that area since your last application/interview.

 

[Achilleas Pitsavas]

Hey Jessica thank you for joining the forum.

I was wondering what are the chances of a non UK law graduate to acquire a training contract, given the fact that he is a qualified lawyer in another European jurisdiction and has done an LLM in London?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey Jessica thank you for joining the forum.

I was wondering what are the chances of a non UK law graduate to acquire a training contract, given the fact that he is a qualified lawyer in another European jurisdiction and has done an LLM in London?

It’s impossible to answer the “what are the chances part” to any applicant... so I will avoid that part of the question

If you are a qualified lawyer in another jurisdiction then the first question is, why do you need a training contract? You ultimately don’t need one and could choose to take the QLTS (soon to become the SQE) instead. If you have a logical reason for wanting to take the convoluted route of GDL + LPC + 2 years of entry level work, then you have as much of a chance as anyone else.

 

[Achilleas Pitsavas]

It’s impossible to answer the “what are the chances part” to any applicant... so I will avoid that part of the question

If you are a qualified lawyer in another jurisdiction then the first question is, why do you need a training contract? You ultimately don’t need one and could choose to take the QLTS (soon to become the SQE) instead. If you have a logical reason for wanting to take the convoluted route of GDL + LPC + 2 years of entry level work, then you have as much of a chance as anyone else.

Yes you are right popably there is no point pursuing a training contract. However I was thinking that firms normally sponsor graduates their LPC as part of their training contract. There is something similar for QLTS? I have never heard firms sponsoring QLTS for international lawyers.

 

[E.TX]

Hi Jessica,

I'm a 2nd year law undergraduate going into 3rd, and I would like to apply for vac scheme/Training contracts in my 3rd year. Although I have relevant extra-curricular activities, I've got an average of 59% for my second year. I most likely would graduate with a 2.1 as the weightage given to 2nd and 3rd year is 40:60 for my university. How can I show the firms in my application that I am most likely going to graduate with a 2.1 or how could I improve my application?

Also, another question is that since I am an international student and the firm would have to sponsor my working visa, would this put me at a disadvantage as compared to local/EU applicants?

Thank you in advance for your replies!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Yes you are right popably there is no point pursuing a training contract. However I was thinking that firms normally sponsor graduates their LPC as part of their training contract. There is something similar for QLTS? I have never heard firms sponsoring QLTS for international lawyers.

The QLTS isn’t a course like the LPC, it’s just a set of examination/assessments, similar to the NY Bar, so wouldn’t necessarily need sponsorship as such. I have known firms to pay for the assessment fees though. This all becomes a moot point though, as the QLTS will become the SQE, which is also replacing the LPC. For someone like yourself, it’s worth waiting for the SQE as it may save you a whole heap of time compared to the GDL/LPC route (you’d need to do the GDL too in the current qualification route).

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I'm a 2nd year law undergraduate going into 3rd, and I would like to apply for vac scheme/Training contracts in my 3rd year. Although I have relevant extra-curricular activities, I've got an average of 59% for my second year. I most likely would graduate with a 2.1 as the weightage given to 2nd and 3rd year is 40:60 for my university. How can I show the firms in my application that I am most likely going to graduate with a 2.1 or how could I improve my application?

Also, another question is that since I am an international student and the firm would have to sponsor my working visa, would this put me at a disadvantage as compared to local/EU applicants?

Thank you in advance for your replies!

The only way to really show you can achieve a 2.1 is to wait until your final results come in. Either that or getting a strong academic reference that’s suggests you will achieve a 2.1. Improving your application is the typical advice - strengthen your experience elsewhere (work experience, extra curriculars, motivation for applying, written style etc).

The visa requirement isn’t a direct disadvantage - it’s just an added complication and cost to the firm.

As long as you are converting from your student visa, then a visa for a TC is fairly straight forward as long as it meets the work permit minimum requirements (typically salary) and the firm is willing to pay to visa fee. The issue is if there is a gap between your student visa expiring and your TC starting. Then a resident labour market test is needed and it becomes much more difficult and process driven, plus you’re then part of a national quota for visas, which means you might not get one even if you do meet all the conditions.

Play to your strengths/uniqueness - if you are fluent in languages useful to the firm, make sure you showcase that. Firms will be willing to sponsor visas for people who bring something else to the table that an average UK/EU student couldn’t.

Also keep an eye out on what happens post Brexit - the work permit process could become a lot easier!

 

[EEE]

Hi Jessica,

Thank you for joining the forum.

I am a non-law student (Politics and Spanish) going into my 4th year at Bristol University having just completed a Year Abroad in Chile. Following my graduation next year I plan to undertake the GDL/LPC route, therefore this autumn I will begin applications for vacation schemes in magic circle/city/international firms.

However, I do not have much law-related work experience. To date, I have very old law-related experience dating back to secondary school and this summer I have shadowed a variety of solicitors at a Law Centre. My other experience lies in journalism, Spanish/translation work, NGOs/social impact work, and publishing. This is because up until 8 months ago I had not been clear on what career path I wanted to take.

I am struggling to obtain more law-related experience without having done any previously. Will I be at a disadvantage when applying to vacation schemes at law firms because of this?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Alice G]

Hi Jessica,

Thank you for joining the forum.

I am a non-law student (Politics and Spanish) going into my 4th year at Bristol University having just completed a Year Abroad in Chile. Following my graduation next year I plan to undertake the GDL/LPC route, therefore this autumn I will begin applications for vacation schemes in magic circle/city/international firms.

However, I do not have much law-related work experience. To date, I have very old law-related experience dating back to secondary school and this summer I have shadowed a variety of solicitors at a Law Centre. My other experience lies in journalism, Spanish/translation work, NGOs/social impact work, and publishing. This is because up until 8 months ago I had not been clear on what career path I wanted to take.

I am struggling to obtain more law-related experience without having done any previously. Will I be at a disadvantage when applying to vacation schemes at law firms because of this?

Thanks in advance!

I know that @Jessica Booker will give you some excellent advice and guidance on this but just to offer you some reassurance, your situation sounds as though it really mirrors mine when I started applying last September!
I too had very dated work experience (from year 11!) and no legal interest in my CV since then. I found attending events and open days exceptionally helpful in terms of finding out more to then convincingly state my motivations at interview. I also leveraged my non law experiences (such as journalism too!) and explained what was missing from those experiences that a career in law would afford me. I’m looking to do a post or a series on here about ‘crafting your narrative’ with my own as an example as I really found this tricky but, ultimately, what I believe people want to see is how you can talk about and rationalise your experiences, and even lack of, to convincingly substantiate why you are now looking into law. I hope this helps and reassured you and Jess will be able to offer you some more detailed guidance on this too I’m sure

 

[EEE]

I know that @Jessica Booker will give you some excellent advice and guidance on this but just to offer you some reassurance, your situation sounds as though it really mirrors mine when I started applying last September!
I too had very dated work experience (from year 11!) and no legal interest in my CV since then. I found attending events and open days exceptionally helpful in terms of finding out more to then convincingly state my motivations at interview. I also leveraged my non law experiences (such as journalism too!) and explained what was missing from those experiences that a career in law would afford me. I’m looking to do a post or a series on here about ‘crafting your narrative’ with me own as an example as I really found this tricky but ultimately, what I believe people want to see isn’t how you can talk about and rationalise your experiences, and even lack of, to convincingly substantiate why you are now looking into law. I hope this helps and reassured you and Jess will be able to offer you some more detailed guidance on this too I’m sure

Thank you, Alice! That is incredibly reassuring and very useful advice. Would you suggest that it's still worth applying to 2019 winter vacation schemes even if a lot of open days happen in 2020? Or is it smarter to apply to open days only and following that apply to vacation schemes?
Thanks again

 

[Alice G]

Thank you, Alice! That is incredibly reassuring and very useful advice. Would you suggest that it's still worth applying to 2019 winter vacation schemes even if a lot of open days happen in 2020? Or is it smarter to apply to open days only and following that apply to vacation schemes?
Thanks again

I think applying for a mix is good tact. I’d say pick a couple of firms you’re keen on to do winter schemes with but perhaps leave your top choices for spring to account for open days? Most of the open days I did happened in November (HSF, Latham, CC) so I would start looking into applying for those because they can be added to your spring apps perhaps I also went to so so many insight evenings which happen as soon as October hits so you can add these to your winter apps and be sure to do so! Every little thing helps and tells the firm you’re serious and really going out of your way to learn

I’d also highly recommend the slaughters winter workshop if you’re eligible for that (you’d need to check) but it’s a really insightful two day thing and taught me so much!

 

[EEE]

I think applying for a mix is good tact. I’d say pick a couple of firms you’re keen on to do winter schemes with but perhaps leave your top choices for spring to account for open days? Most of the open days I did happened in November (HSF, Latham, CC) so I would start looking into applying for those because they can be added to your spring apps perhaps I also went to so so many insight evenings which happen as soon as October hits so you can add these to your winter apps and be sure to do so! Every little thing helps and tells the firm you’re serious and really going out of your way to learn

I’d also highly recommend the slaughters winter workshop if you’re eligible for that (you’d need to check) but it’s a really insightful two day thing and taught me so much!

Amazingly useful advice, thank you so much!

 

[Alice G]

Amazingly useful advice, thank you so much!

No problem at all! Wishing you the best with this cycle, I’m sure you’ll do very well indeed

 

[D]

Good evening Jessica,

I have finished my first year at university and will be applying for vacation schemes in this cycle. I am by no means disappointed with my first year results (I have scored a mid 2:1), however, I did this having worked 20 hours a week during term time, and 40 hours a week out of term (including the revision period). I feel I could have scored higher had I not had to work, but owing to my own circumstances, it was a necessity.

Should I mention this as a mitigating circumstance? Obviously, I haven't crashed and burned to the extent where I need to explain away a 2:2 mark, but equally I feel my performance was impaired. I also do not want to devalue the mitigating circumstances section where I know of people who have suffered much more than I.

Some advice would be great!

Many thanks

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

Thank you for joining the forum.

I am a non-law student (Politics and Spanish) going into my 4th year at Bristol University having just completed a Year Abroad in Chile. Following my graduation next year I plan to undertake the GDL/LPC route, therefore this autumn I will begin applications for vacation schemes in magic circle/city/international firms.

However, I do not have much law-related work experience. To date, I have very old law-related experience dating back to secondary school and this summer I have shadowed a variety of solicitors at a Law Centre. My other experience lies in journalism, Spanish/translation work, NGOs/social impact work, and publishing. This is because up until 8 months ago I had not been clear on what career path I wanted to take.

I am struggling to obtain more law-related experience without having done any previously. Will I be at a disadvantage when applying to vacation schemes at law firms because of this?

Thanks in advance!

No disadvantage. You have legal work experience though - I just think you are under selling it. You also have a lot of work experience that has directly transferable skills.

Look to meet firms on campus in the early Autumn. You may want to consider going to events like CityLawLive too - these are all things that will help you nail the “why commercial law” part of your application. Also keep an eye out for any open days happening in August/September before people go back to uni.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you, Alice! That is incredibly reassuring and very useful advice. Would you suggest that it's still worth applying to 2019 winter vacation schemes even if a lot of open days happen in 2020? Or is it smarter to apply to open days only and following that apply to vacation schemes?
Thanks again

Do both - they are not mutually exclusive

 

[Jessica Booker]

Good evening Jessica,

I have finished my first year at university and will be applying for vacation schemes in this cycle. I am by no means disappointed with my first year results (I have scored a mid 2:1), however, I did this having worked 20 hours a week during term time, and 40 hours a week out of term (including the revision period). I feel I could have scored higher had I not had to work, but owing to my own circumstances, it was a necessity.

Should I mention this as a mitigating circumstance? Obviously, I haven't crashed and burned to the extent where I need to explain away a 2:2 mark, but equally I feel my performance was impaired. I also do not want to devalue the mitigating circumstances section where I know of people who have suffered much more than I.

Some advice would be great!

Many thanks

This is not mitigating circumstances. Mitigating circumstances are things you can’t control/are unexpected.

What you should do is clearly state on an application that you successfully balanced getting a 2.1 and holding down a job with 20/40 hours a week. Sell it as the positive thing it is, not something supposedly negative (which Ex Circs are).

 

[Dos]

Hi Jessica, thank you for doing this.

I wanted to ask several questions.

1) Is having a 2:2 in one module(which was my first ever module taken) an issue? I have an overall high 2:1, from a top ten RG uni. Would it bar me from successfully attaining interview from the MC firms like Freshfields or Slaughters and A&O?(or even SC/US firms?)

2) Is having non legal work experience essential? I've never had a job(although currently applying), however I have done around 4 first year schemes(which had work shadowing in several seats), and I have around 4 open days attended for my first year. I also have two society positions, one with the Law club,. I was wondering if that would be decent enough to apply for Vac Schemes or TC's. Some of my experienced friends say it is, though I would want a former recruiters thoughts ofc, so thanks. I see a lot of students from my Uni having full internships with large firms already in their first year, so I do feel a bit inexperienced.

Thank you for your help

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica, thank you for doing this.

I wanted to ask several questions.

1) Is having a 2:2 in one module(which was my first ever module taken) an issue? I have an overall high 2:1, from a top ten RG uni. Would it bar me from successfully attaining interview from the MC firms like Freshfields or Slaughters and A&O?(or even SC/US firms?)

2) Is having non legal work experience essential? I've never had a job(although currently applying), however I have done around 4 first year schemes(which had work shadowing in several seats), and I have around 4 open days attended for my first year. I also have two society positions, one with the Law club,. I was wondering if that would be decent enough to apply for Vac Schemes or TC's. Some of my experienced friends say it is, though I would want a former recruiters thoughts ofc, so thanks. I see a lot of students from my Uni having full internships with large firms already in their first year, so I do feel a bit inexperienced.

Thank you for your help

1) not an issue at all - plenty of people secure TCs with one or more 2.2 modules at the firms you mention

2) You’ve never had a part time or volunteer job? Your legal work experience is stellar, but things like a “normal” job in retail, hospitality and the like, or working on volunteer projects will have tested your soft skills much more than open days. It’s not that your application will be hindered by not having it, especially if your application is strong elsewhere, but it just brings another dimension to your application.

You’ve got to get rid of the attitude that you are under experienced though - you’ve got a lot going for you with your open days/work shadowing and ECs.