Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[ElleWoods]

Hey Jessica - I’m a GDL grad without a TC offer. I want to do a year’s work as a paralegal this year (as in, from September) and defer my LPC offer to a Sept 2022 start, because I think that way it’s more likely to be paid for by a company. Also having done an LLM before the GDL I want to work for a bit. The LPC is my preferred qual route, having spent money on the GDL.
However, I received an email from my course provider (London Met) saying that “If you would like to ensure that you can continue your studies on the Legal Practice Course route (LPC) rather than the new Solicitors Qualifying Examination (SQE), you will need to accept your offer for this course by 31 August 2021 and start this course in 2021”.
Does that mean this year is really the last year to do the LPC?
Do you think I should do the LPC this year instead then to be sure I can qualify that way?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey Jessica - I’m a GDL grad without a TC offer. I want to do a year’s work as a paralegal this year (as in, from September) and defer my LPC offer to a Sept 2022 start, because I think that way it’s more likely to be paid for by a company. Also having done an LLM before the GDL I want to work for a bit. The LPC is my preferred qual route, having spent money on the GDL.
However, I received an email from my course provider (London Met) saying that “If you would like to ensure that you can continue your studies on the Legal Practice Course route (LPC) rather than the new Solicitors Qualifying Examination (SQE), you will need to accept your offer for this course by 31 August 2021 and start this course in 2021”.
Does that mean this year is really the last year to do the LPC?
Do you think I should do the LPC this year instead then to be sure I can qualify that way?

It isn’t the last year to do the LPC, but it’s likely that many courses will start to run down, and universities may choose for this year to be their last LPC year. There will be some LPC providers beyond 2022 but the financial viability of running the course when many grads can’t take it and many firms are changing to the SQE means it wouldn't surprise me if many stop running their courses.

There will be very few non lawyers going forward for the LPC as of 2022, and as of 2024, many law students will also no longer be eligible for the LPC.

So by deferring for a year, you are taking a pretty big gamble on the 2023 trainee intakes being 1) available and 2) being LPC TCs.

As most firms will be recruiting for 2024 intakes this year, many TCs this year are likely to be SQE TCs and so you need to weigh up the risk of deferring. But that depends on what firms you are aiming for, and what they are likely to be recruiting for in terms of start dates and TC structure.

The only thing to mention is that the LPC will give you an exemption from SQE1 and so it wouldn’t be a complete waste to go on to do the LPC but have to take a SQE training route.

 

[ElleWoods]

It isn’t the last year to do the LPC, but it’s likely that many courses will start to run down, and universities may choose for this year to be their last LPC year. There will be some LPC providers beyond 2022 but the financial viability of running the course when many grads can’t take it and many firms are changing to the SQE means it wouldn't surprise me if many stop running their courses.

There will be very few non lawyers going forward for the LPC as of 2022, and as of 2024, many law students will also no longer be eligible for the LPC.

So by deferring for a year, you are taking a pretty big gamble on the 2023 trainee intakes being 1) available and 2) being LPC TCs.

As most firms will be recruiting for 2024 intakes this year, many TCs this year are likely to be SQE TCs and so you need to weigh up the risk of deferring. But that depends on what firms you are aiming for, and what they are likely to be recruiting for in terms of start dates and TC structure.

The only thing to mention is that the LPC will give you an exemption from SQE1 and so it wouldn’t be a complete waste to go on to do the LPC but have to take a SQE training route.

Thanks so much - this is so so helpful for me to know.

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

Hey @Jessica Booker hope you are doing well.
I'm not sure if you remember the question that I had asked you yesterday on the forum regarding whether or not we can do the SQE whilst doing the TC but this question is regarding that only.

I messaged Freshfields yesterday regarding the same and this was their response: "You would be joining our SQE intake and if you are offered a TC with us, you will be required to take the PGDL, our City Consortium Plus Programme and the SQE. I can’t currently advise on whether these will be virtual or in person, but in 2024 we hope that these would be running in person."

Since Linklaters is also a member of the City Consortium group, it follows the same method but I still have a doubt. According to Linklaters' FAQs, the CCPP + SQE 1 + SQE 2 runs for 11 months, and the length of the PGDL is 8 months but exactly how many months will it take me to do all of the above qualifications (i.e PGDL+ CCPP + SQE 1 + SQE 2). Can all these qualifications be managed simultaneously with a Training Contract?

Of late, this is a doubt that has been prevalent across most Indian law forums (https://www.legallyindia.com/convos...rst-two-years-prior-to-clearing-the-SQE-Test-) and even I'm looking for an answer to this.

On a side note, is there a comprehensive guide that you would recommend that I can watch/read so that I can understand all the routes once and for all.

Thank you for being so patient with all my queries.

 

[Badawy]

Hey @Jessica Booker hope you are doing well.
I'm not sure if you remember the question that I had asked you yesterday on the forum regarding whether or not we can do the SQE whilst doing the TC but this question is regarding that only.

I messaged Freshfields yesterday regarding the same and this was their response: "You would be joining our SQE intake and if you are offered a TC with us, you will be required to take the PGDL, our City Consortium Plus Programme and the SQE. I can’t currently advise on whether these will be virtual or in person, but in 2024 we hope that these would be running in person."

Since Linklaters is also a member of the City Consortium group, it follows the same method but I still have a doubt. According to Linklaters' FAQs, the CCPP + SQE 1 + SQE 2 runs for 11 months, and the length of the PGDL is 8 months but exactly how many months will it take me to do all of the above qualifications (i.e PGDL+ CCPP + SQE 1 + SQE 2). Can all these qualifications be managed simultaneously with a Training Contract?

Of late, this is a doubt that has been prevalent across most Indian law students (https://www.legallyindia.com/convos...rst-two-years-prior-to-clearing-the-SQE-Test-) and even I'm looking for an answer to this.

On a side note, is there a comprehensive guide that you would recommend that I can watch/read so that I can understand all the routes once and for all.

Thank you for being so patient with all my queries.

Obviously, not @Jessica Booker but can chip in on this question.

I graduate with a non-law degree in June 2022. My firm (member of the CCPP) has told me the soonest I could join the firm would be August 2024 via the SQE. So it is about 25 months (without factoring in the breaks in-between and assuming the PGDL starts in September 2022).

Not too sure what you are exactly asking, but you would not be permitted to study for the qualifications whilst doing the TC. Perhaps this is a possibility at other firms, but I imagine you cannot do this with any members of the CCPP (beyond a reasonable doubt, have not confirmed this) due to workload.

Also note that the CCPP path is longer due to that extra supplementary course (as you have mentioned)!

Hope that was useful.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey @Jessica Booker hope you are doing well.
I'm not sure if you remember the question that I had asked you yesterday on the forum regarding whether or not we can do the SQE whilst doing the TC but this question is regarding that only.

I messaged Freshfields yesterday regarding the same and this was their response: "You would be joining our SQE intake and if you are offered a TC with us, you will be required to take the PGDL, our City Consortium Plus Programme and the SQE. I can’t currently advise on whether these will be virtual or in person, but in 2024 we hope that these would be running in person."

Since Linklaters is also a member of the City Consortium group, it follows the same method but I still have a doubt. According to Linklaters' FAQs, the CCPP + SQE 1 + SQE 2 runs for 11 months, and the length of the PGDL is 8 months but exactly how many months will it take me to do all of the above qualifications (i.e PGDL+ CCPP + SQE 1 + SQE 2). Can all these qualifications be managed simultaneously with a Training Contract?

Of late, this is a doubt that has been prevalent across most Indian law forums (https://www.legallyindia.com/convos...rst-two-years-prior-to-clearing-the-SQE-Test-) and even I'm looking for an answer to this.

On a side note, is there a comprehensive guide that you would recommend that I can watch/read so that I can understand all the routes once and for all.

Thank you for being so patient with all my queries.

It’s hard for me to say as I don’t know what time gap there would be between the GDL and the CCPP course.

Some firms are choosing to do their SQE training and assessments while the individual works and gains their qualifying work experience. So it is feasible to do them simultaneously (although most firms that are doing this are doing it after the GDL). These firms are tending to make the TC longer though, typically 30 months instead of 24 to account for the study time needed.

However, for the likes of FBD and Linklaters, they are choosing for individuals to complete all the courses and assessments before someone starts their TC/QWE. They won’t allow their trainees to start until these courses are complete and the exams are passed.

I’d recommend looking at the SRA’s information about the qualification routes.

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

Thanks for the clarification @Badawy and @Jessica Booker but just one last follow up question, please. For these 30 odd months in which the applicant will undertake the qualifications, he/she will be paid a 10k GBP yearly grant, right? My concern is that the 10k grant wouldn't be enough according to London standards, so does that mean that we'd have to work part-time to fund our living expenses? Can the person do these qualifications by being physically present in the UK but not being in a city as expensive as London so that the 10k GBP grant can actually last a year?

Thanks.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks for the clarification @Badawy and @Jessica Booker but just one last follow up question, please. For these 30 odd months in which the applicant will undertake the qualifications, he/she will be paid a 10k GBP yearly grant, right? My concern is that the 10k grant wouldn't be enough according to London standards, so does that mean that we'd have to work part-time to fund our living expenses? Can the person do these qualifications by being physically present in the UK but not being in a city as expensive as London so that the 10k GBP grant can actually last a year?

Thanks.

If you were doing the GDL, you would get a maintenance for the GDL. If you then did the CCPP you would get a maintenance grant for that too.

You can find a list of the GDL and LPC grants on Legal Cheek under their “the Firms Most list”.

FBD is £10k for the GDL and £10k for the LPC. As the CCPP sounds to be a similar amount of time as the LPC, I’d think the grant will be a similar amount.

Living off £20k for two years will be tricky. Many people work part time jobs to help fund living in the city. Those who can tend to live at home with parents to save money. Some people top up their GDL to a masters course so they can obtain funding (but that could be trickier if you are not a UK citizen).

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

Thank you for your help, Jessica.

 

[adfshjkladfshjkl]

Is it likely a firm will take it poorly if they learn that I am seeking qualification in New York? I expect to eventually need their support such as pre-TC pro bono opportunities to meet New York's 50 hour pro bono requirement or when I take leave to take the bar exam

 

[Deleted member 2707]

Hi @Jessica Booker, I was looking over my TC contract and there doesn't seem to be a provision on Tier 2/Skilled Worker Visa (I'm an international student). There is only a provision on "Right to Work". Is this the norm for international student TC contracts or should there be a specific provision on their sponsorship of the Skilled Worker Visa?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker, I was looking over my TC contract and there doesn't seem to be a provision on Tier 2/Skilled Worker Visa (I'm an international student). There is only a provision on "Right to Work". Is this the norm for international student TC contracts or should there be a specific provision on their sponsorship of the Skilled Worker Visa?

Yes - that is normal as the right to work will fall under the skilled persons visa. However, you should probably speak to them to understand what visa fees they will cover and which you will need to cover (this is particularly relevant for the health care surcharge).

 

[Deleted member 2707]

Yes - that is normal as the right to work will fall under the skilled persons visa. However, you should probably speak to them to understand what visa fees they will cover and which you will need to cover (this is particularly relevant for the health care surcharge).

Alright thanks Jessica! I was just suddenly worried that they wouldn't sponsor the Skilled Workers Visa as they had omitted it in the contract. Just from a Grad Rec perspective, how does the visa application process work?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Alright thanks Jessica! I was just suddenly worried that they wouldn't sponsor the Skilled Workers Visa as they had omitted it in the contract. Just from a Grad Rec perspective, how does the visa application process work?

There is no guarantee they will, so it’s probably best to ask them anyway if it’s not explicit in the contract.

It will only happen about 3 months before you start your TC. They can’t start the process with UKBA until 3 months before you join the firm as an employee. I recommend looking at gov.uk to find out more about the process. I can’t really comment as 1) the process is relatively new where the skilled visas only came in January 2021 and 2) the process can differ depending on your individual circumstances.

 

[Deleted member 2707]

There is no guarantee they will, so it’s probably best to ask them anyway if it’s not explicit in the contract.

It will only happen about 3 months before you start your TC. They can’t start the process with UKBA until 3 months before you join the firm as an employee. I recommend looking at gov.uk to find out more about the process. I can’t really comment as 1) the process is relatively new where the skilled visas only came in January 2021 and 2) the process can differ depending on your individual circumstances.

Thank you Jessica! I've just popped them an email- by any chance, do you happen to know if Macfarlanes sponsors international TC applicants? I was under the impression they do but starting to have doubts now..

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you Jessica! I've just popped them an email- by any chance, do you happen to know if Macfarlanes sponsors international TC applicants? I was under the impression they do but starting to have doubts now..

I don’t know to be honest. Just because they may have done in the past, doesn’t necessarily mean they will now (although the visa process is easier, so I’d be surprised if this is the case).

Is it obvious from your application that you are a non UK citizen?

Did you have to answer a question about your right to work status?

Finally, it gets slightly complicated as you could technically work on a graduate visa if your LPC is a masters course level (and if you go straight from your course into your TC) as anyone who does a UG or PG course has the ability to work in the UK for up to two years after graduation, so they could be assuming your right to work is on that basis.

 

[Deleted member 2707]

I don’t know to be honest. Just because they may have done in the past, doesn’t necessarily mean they will now (although the visa process is easier, so I’d be surprised if this is the case).

Is it obvious from your application that you are a non UK citizen?

Did you have to answer a question about your right to work status?

Finally, it gets slightly complicated as you could technically work on a graduate visa if your LPC is a masters course level (and if you go straight from your course into your TC) as anyone who does a UG or PG course has the ability to work in the UK for up to two years after graduation, so they could be assuming your right to work is on that basis.

I would assume its quite obvious that I am not a UK citizen as my work experience, phone number and address are all linked to my home country. My application questions were also centred around my region.

With regards to the right to work status, I answered 2 questions on the right to work. The questions included:
1. Do you need permission to work in the UK during your TC [I answered Yes]
2. Do you need permission to work in the UK post qualification [I answered Yes]

Would it be too bothersome if I gave them a ring tomorrow? It's actually giving me a lot of anxiety and getting an affirmation now would help me sleep easier!

 

[Jessica Booker]

I would assume its quite obvious that I am not a UK citizen as my work experience, phone number and address are all linked to my home country. My application questions were also centred around my region.

With regards to the right to work status, I answered 2 questions on the right to work. The questions included:
1. Do you need permission to work in the UK during your TC [I answered Yes]
2. Do you need permission to work in the UK post qualification [I answered Yes]

Would it be too bothersome if I gave them a ring tomorrow? It's actually giving me a lot of anxiety and getting an affirmation now would help me sleep easier!

In that case they must know you’ll need sponsorship. Maybe with the new visa process they are willing to apply for them - I know that is the case for many grad recruiters who previously didn’t.

It’s not bothersome at all. I think it would be good to get clarity. Clearly the “qualification” question also recognises that someone could have the right to work as a graduate/postgraduate coming off a course but not necessarily at qualification, so to me this suggests they want to know whether you need a work visa. If they have offered you and they aren’t going to apply for one I am very confused as to why they asked the question but still offered you.

 

[Deleted member 2707]

In that case they must know you’ll need sponsorship. Maybe with the new visa process they are willing to apply for them - I know that is the case for many grad recruiters who previously didn’t.

It’s not bothersome at all. I think it would be good to get clarity. Clearly the “qualification” question also recognises that someone could have the right to work as a graduate/postgraduate coming off a course but not necessarily at qualification, so to me this suggests they want to know whether you need a work visa. If they have offered you and they aren’t going to apply for one I am very confused as to why they asked the question but still offered you.

Thank you Jessica! I've just confirmed with them that they will be able to sponsor my visa!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you Jessica! I've just confirmed with them that they will be able to sponsor my visa!

Great news - I was going to be super surprised if they didn’t given the questions they asked you!

I think the fact they won’t be able to recruit EU students and the new ease of the visa system means they may have changed their mind, as I read somewhere that they didn’t sponsor In the past (although difficult to know how accurate that information was).