Ask 3 future trainees (Magic & Silver Circle, International Elite) ANYTHING! *New TCLA Team Members*

Jacob Miller

Legendary Member
Future Trainee
Forum Team
  • Feb 15, 2020
    896
    2,393
    Hi, I have been feeling very low after receiving rejections from every application I have sent since September 2020. I have acquired a lot of commercial law and non-commercial law experience over the years to help make my application stand out. I have tried to change my writing technique, get it proofread by various people including trainees, associates and friends but it hasn't paid off yet. At this point, I just don't know what to do and where to go. I am graduating this year and the thought of not having secured a TC is scary (although I know many people secure a TC later). I was wondering whether someone could give me advice on how to get back on track please? Most of firms have closed their applications now so I might have to re-apply next application cycle anyways but does anyone have any advice on what next steps I should take in the meantime? Thank you.
    Hey,

    First off - thanks for reaching out and posting this. It's brave and highly commendable.

    You're not the only one in this position, so don't feel isolated. I personally think you should take some time away from it all - take several months away, give yourself some breathing space and try not to think about it. When you're ready to begin thinking about the next cycle, there's quite a lot you can do before the cycle has started, including:
    - Have some of your old apps reviewed. Get some pointers for what's likely to have gone against you so that you can target these areas. Although you've had others read your apps, our team are doing it all the time and are highly tuned to what GR look for! Reviews should be included with your level of subscription to some level
    - Compile a spreadsheet of firms you want to apply to, check whether they're rolling, and begin to prioritise your apps
    - Start substantive research on some of your target firms
    - For rolling firms, start preparing answers/ cover letters based on previous years - they generally don't change a vast amount year to year
    - Ensure your CV is up to date and on point for apps that require a CV submission
    - Keep your commercial awareness up by reading/ following news, following CA discussions on here etc.

    Finally, as you mention, all is not lost (not in the slightest) if you don't secure an offer before you graduate. Plenty of candidates, as you mention, secure TCs post-graduation.

    Hope this helps :)
     

    Asil Ahmad

    Legendary Member
    Premium Member
    Forum Winner
  • Mar 29, 2020
    1,640
    2,160
    29
    I have hit rock bottom. I have received 3 rejections in 1 week and 2 in 1 day last week. I want to ask as the application demand has gone up this year what do I do. Do you advise me to get more legal experience or do something like more volunteering as my application answers are good as I have had them checked by people.

    As I prepare for the new cycle in September what do I do differently is it about me getting more legal experience. Also, most of my applications have been rejected post-application due to the increase in demand as law firms have told me that my application was good but the demand in applications has gone up this year.
     
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    Jacob Miller

    Legendary Member
    Future Trainee
    Forum Team
  • Feb 15, 2020
    896
    2,393
    I have hit rock bottom. I have received 3 rejections in 1 week and 2 in 1 day last week. I want to ask as the application demand has gone up this year what do I do. Do you advise me to get more legal experience or do something like more volunteering as my application answers are good as I have had them checked by people.

    As I prepare for the new cycle in September what do I do differently is it about me getting more legal experience. Also, most of my applications have been rejected post-application due to the increase in demand as law firms have told me that my application was good but the demand in applications has gone up this year.
    Hey Asil,

    Similarly to what I've said above, you're not the only one to have had a tough cycle. It does seem as though the demand for places this year has been extremely high (although that is the case every year, so I may just be more tuned to it this year because of my work here).

    In terms of advising you on specifically what to do, it's extremely challenging to say precisely the best course of action because there's no 'magic formula' to success. Suffice to say, all my responses above would be applicable :)
     
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    Asil Ahmad

    Legendary Member
    Premium Member
    Forum Winner
  • Mar 29, 2020
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    2,160
    29
    Hey Asil,

    Similarly to what I've said above, you're not the only one to have had a tough cycle. It does seem as though the demand for places this year has been extremely high (although that is the case every year, so I may just be more tuned to it this year because of my work here).

    In terms of advising you on specifically what to do, it's extremely challenging to say precisely the best course of action because there's no 'magic formula' to success. Suffice to say, all my responses above would be applicable :)
    Hello Jacob,



    Thank you for your reply. Yes, I read the above and read it after submitting my message and thought getting more experience is the magic formula.
     
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    Jacob Miller

    Legendary Member
    Future Trainee
    Forum Team
  • Feb 15, 2020
    896
    2,393
    Hello Jacob,



    Thank you for your reply. Yes, I read the above and read it after submitting my message and thought getting more experience is the magic formula.
    I understand where you're coming from - unfortunately, though, I don't think that having X number of pieces of work experience will ever be a guarantee to convert an application. It's much more about how you leverage your experiences to show skills/ aptitudes/ competencies/ attributes and then, subsequently, how you make those directly relevant to the particular application you're writing.

    While trying to gain experience is almost never a bad thing, I would encourage you to really think in these terms rather than making an assumption that 'more experience' is necessarily what will solve the challenge of getting further in the application process! :)
     
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    0603

    Esteemed Member
    Dec 15, 2018
    85
    30
    Hi, this might be a slightly strange and silly question. I was wondering if there are two start dates to a summer VS. Does it matter which one you choose? They are a month apart. Just worried they would be left with a few TCs to give out and it would be more competitive to gain a TC in the last scheme as compared to the previous one. Is this just an irrational fear?
     

    Asil Ahmad

    Legendary Member
    Premium Member
    Forum Winner
  • Mar 29, 2020
    1,640
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    29
    I understand where you're coming from - unfortunately, though, I don't think that having X number of pieces of work experience will ever be a guarantee to convert an application. It's much more about how you leverage your experiences to show skills/ aptitudes/ competencies/ attributes and then, subsequently, how you make those directly relevant to the particular application you're writing.

    While trying to gain experience is almost never a bad thing, I would encourage you to really think in these terms rather than making an assumption that 'more experience' is necessarily what will solve the challenge of getting further in the application process! :)
    Thank you very much for this Jacob. I agree with you about ensuring to leverage your experience in a way that shows your skills.
     
    A

    Anon08

    Guest
    Hi, this might be a slightly strange and silly question. I was wondering if there are two start dates to a summer VS. Does it matter which one you choose? They are a month apart. Just worried they would be left with a few TCs to give out and it would be more competitive to gain a TC in the last scheme as compared to the previous one. Is this just an irrational fear?
    I don't mean to hijack the thread - but I am almost certain that it does not make that much of a difference.

    I know when doing my VS at an SC firm they made it clear to us that they do not recruit a set number per VS - 'if they like you, they'll find a spot for you', or so the quote goes.

    Even with other firms which have a reputation for recruiting only a very strict number, they will evenly space it throughout the schemes. Law firms are focused on being able to hire the best talent, regardless of what time you appear in front of them!

    EDIT: Also, just remember that people will be applying for different intakes. You'll have second/third/fourth years on your VS, who will be looking to start in 2022/23/34, etc. Therefore, firms will hand out more training contracts than you might think, depending on how flexible they are, and when people are looking to join!
     
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    Dheepa

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Future Trainee
    TCLA Moderator
    Premium Member
    Forum Team
    M&A Bootcamp
    Junior Lawyer 43
  • Jan 20, 2019
    852
    2,158
    Hi, this might be a slightly strange and silly question. I was wondering if there are two start dates to a summer VS. Does it matter which one you choose? They are a month apart. Just worried they would be left with a few TCs to give out and it would be more competitive to gain a TC in the last scheme as compared to the previous one. Is this just an irrational fear?

    Hey, I wouldn't say it's an irrational fear. I know I went through the same doubts but it actually really doesn't matter which scheme you do.

    If a firm wants to make you a TC offer they will 100% find a space for you. Bear in mind that depending on where the rest of the VS students are at (post-graduation, second years, year abroad students etc.) offers will be made across different intakes as well, which again means there's likely to be more TC places up for grabs than you think. A lot of firms also wait to do both their summer schemes and assess all their candidates before giving out TC places. I know for 2/3 of the vacs I did last year this was the case (and I'm happy I did the later schemes too because it meant less of wait to find out about the TC haha). So really, just pick the intake that you want and that fits into your own schedule - it won't change your odds in any way. ☺️
     

    Jacob Miller

    Legendary Member
    Future Trainee
    Forum Team
  • Feb 15, 2020
    896
    2,393
    Hi, this might be a slightly strange and silly question. I was wondering if there are two start dates to a summer VS. Does it matter which one you choose? They are a month apart. Just worried they would be left with a few TCs to give out and it would be more competitive to gain a TC in the last scheme as compared to the previous one. Is this just an irrational fear?
    Shouldn't matter which you choose at all, as above if they want you they'll make you an offer! I chose mine around dates that would suit me in re other plans (the the 'rona happened lol)
     

    0603

    Esteemed Member
    Dec 15, 2018
    85
    30
    Shouldn't matter which you choose at all, as above if they want you they'll make you an offer! I chose mine around dates that would suit me in re other plans (the the 'rona happened lol)
    Hey, I wouldn't say it's an irrational fear. I know I went through the same doubts but it actually really doesn't matter which scheme you do.

    If a firm wants to make you a TC offer they will 100% find a space for you. Bear in mind that depending on where the rest of the VS students are at (post-graduation, second years, year abroad students etc.) offers will be made across different intakes as well, which again means there's likely to be more TC places up for grabs than you think. A lot of firms also wait to do both their summer schemes and assess all their candidates before giving out TC places. I know for 2/3 of the vacs I did last year this was the case (and I'm happy I did the later schemes too because it meant less of wait to find out about the TC haha). So really, just pick the intake that you want and that fits into your own schedule - it won't change your odds in any way. ☺️
    I don't mean to hijack the thread - but I am almost certain that it does not make that much of a difference.

    I know when doing my VS at an SC firm they made it clear to us that they do not recruit a set number per VS - 'if they like you, they'll find a spot for you', or so the quote goes.

    Even with other firms which have a reputation for recruiting only a very strict number, they will evenly space it throughout the schemes. Law firms are focused on being able to hire the best talent, regardless of what time you appear in front of them!

    EDIT: Also, just remember that people will be applying for different intakes. You'll have second/third/fourth years on your VS, who will be looking to start in 2022/23/34, etc. Therefore, firms will hand out more training contracts than you might think, depending on how flexible they are, and when people are looking to join!
    Thank you so much! This was very re-assuring :)
     

    Jessica Booker

    Legendary Member
    TCLA Moderator
    Gold Member
    Graduate Recruitment
    Premium Member
    Forum Team
    Aug 1, 2019
    14,512
    20,201
    Hi, this might be a slightly strange and silly question. I was wondering if there are two start dates to a summer VS. Does it matter which one you choose? They are a month apart. Just worried they would be left with a few TCs to give out and it would be more competitive to gain a TC in the last scheme as compared to the previous one. Is this just an irrational fear?
    Firms tend to be mindful that stronger candidates could come from the later scheme and so will either hold candidates or reserve spots (or both) to ensure they don’t miss out on talent that just happens to come through a later scheme.
     
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    LS07

    Well-Known Member
    Premium Member
    M&A Bootcamp
    Dec 23, 2020
    24
    58
    Hey,

    First off - thanks for reaching out and posting this. It's brave and highly commendable.

    You're not the only one in this position, so don't feel isolated. I personally think you should take some time away from it all - take several months away, give yourself some breathing space and try not to think about it. When you're ready to begin thinking about the next cycle, there's quite a lot you can do before the cycle has started, including:
    - Have some of your old apps reviewed. Get some pointers for what's likely to have gone against you so that you can target these areas. Although you've had others read your apps, our team are doing it all the time and are highly tuned to what GR look for! Reviews should be included with your level of subscription to some level
    - Compile a spreadsheet of firms you want to apply to, check whether they're rolling, and begin to prioritise your apps
    - Start substantive research on some of your target firms
    - For rolling firms, start preparing answers/ cover letters based on previous years - they generally don't change a vast amount year to year
    - Ensure your CV is up to date and on point for apps that require a CV submission
    - Keep your commercial awareness up by reading/ following news, following CA discussions on here etc.

    Finally, as you mention, all is not lost (not in the slightest) if you don't secure an offer before you graduate. Plenty of candidates, as you mention, secure TCs post-graduation.

    Hope this helps :)
    @Jacob Miller Thank you Jacob, I appreciate your advice a lot!
     

    pbyrne

    Esteemed Member
    Junior Lawyer
    Jan 15, 2021
    89
    253
    Hi guys - hope you're well! I could use some advice on the following question: "Describe a time when you had to be careful talking about sensitive information. How did you do it?"

    I'm a bit unsure on how to approach this. I work in reputation management/media law so often deal with celebs and high profile people and their v sensitive personal information, and have to be quite tactful in client interviews (e.g. when talking about v personal situations that ended up in the press), and have also had to be careful discussing my experience in interviews, but I'm not sure if that's the type of thing they mean?

    I'm also a bit confused about the 'how' - but for example in interviews I've used phrases like "high profile individual" and avoided more specific descriptions like actor or footballer and focused on my tasks rather than the situation which might be identifiable it it's been in the press.

    I'd really appreciate any advice on this!
     

    Jessica Booker

    Legendary Member
    TCLA Moderator
    Gold Member
    Graduate Recruitment
    Premium Member
    Forum Team
    Aug 1, 2019
    14,512
    20,201
    Hi guys - hope you're well! I could use some advice on the following question: "Describe a time when you had to be careful talking about sensitive information. How did you do it?"

    I'm a bit unsure on how to approach this. I work in reputation management/media law so often deal with celebs and high profile people and their v sensitive personal information, and have to be quite tactful in client interviews (e.g. when talking about v personal situations that ended up in the press), and have also had to be careful discussing my experience in interviews, but I'm not sure if that's the type of thing they mean?

    I'm also a bit confused about the 'how' - but for example in interviews I've used phrases like "high profile individual" and avoided more specific descriptions like actor or footballer and focused on my tasks rather than the situation which might be identifiable it it's been in the press.

    I'd really appreciate any advice on this!
    All sounds like the right content and approach to me!
     
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    Dheepa

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Future Trainee
    TCLA Moderator
    Premium Member
    Forum Team
    M&A Bootcamp
    Junior Lawyer 43
  • Jan 20, 2019
    852
    2,158
    Hi guys - hope you're well! I could use some advice on the following question: "Describe a time when you had to be careful talking about sensitive information. How did you do it?"

    I'm a bit unsure on how to approach this. I work in reputation management/media law so often deal with celebs and high profile people and their v sensitive personal information, and have to be quite tactful in client interviews (e.g. when talking about v personal situations that ended up in the press), and have also had to be careful discussing my experience in interviews, but I'm not sure if that's the type of thing they mean?

    I'm also a bit confused about the 'how' - but for example in interviews I've used phrases like "high profile individual" and avoided more specific descriptions like actor or footballer and focused on my tasks rather than the situation which might be identifiable it it's been in the press.

    I'd really appreciate any advice on this!

    Agreed with Jess. Also this is a great example because it shows off some of your more unique experiences that other candidates won’t have. On the how did you do it point, they’re really just asking you to be as detailed as possible about the steps you took. You can be as vague as necessary about the situation as long as you provide details on what you did!
     

    pbyrne

    Esteemed Member
    Junior Lawyer
    Jan 15, 2021
    89
    253
    @Dheepa @Jessica Booker - thanks both so much for your replies!

    Just a quick follow up question. Regarding details on 'how' - do these sound ok?

    With clients: having pre-prepared specific questions to limit how much time is spent on private issues, assuring them that any notes taken will be entirely confidential and only handled by the people working on their matter and only discussing them with those people, acknowledging that certain things may be uncomfortable or awkward to talk about and they should feel free to stop/take their time/come back to certain things, checking with supervisors about how to handle certain topics/whether they should be raised at all.
     

    Jacob Miller

    Legendary Member
    Future Trainee
    Forum Team
  • Feb 15, 2020
    896
    2,393
    @Dheepa @Jessica Booker - thanks both so much for your replies!

    Just a quick follow up question. Regarding details on 'how' - do these sound ok?

    With clients: having pre-prepared specific questions to limit how much time is spent on private issues, assuring them that any notes taken will be entirely confidential and only handled by the people working on their matter and only discussing them with those people, acknowledging that certain things may be uncomfortable or awkward to talk about and they should feel free to stop/take their time/come back to certain things, checking with supervisors about how to handle certain topics/whether they should be raised at all.
    I think all of this sounds about right! :)
     
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