Ask 3 future trainees (Magic & Silver Circle, International Elite) ANYTHING! *New TCLA Team Members*

[djqb]

Hey, thanks for reaching out and glad you've enjoyed the articles!

I've personally not had any experience with Macfarlanes, haven't applied to them before, so I don't know a phenomenal amount about them in terms of really specific information. Suffice to say, based on my knowledge, you're pretty much on point with most of your analysis. Purely speaking on numbers, Macfarlanes PEP is a bit higher than Travers; Travers' NQ basic salary is a bit higher than Macs and I think Travers have a slightly more generous bonus structure too. Travers score higher than Macs on several metrics according to Legal Cheek's 'insider reports', Travers' have a higher trainee retention rate and outperform Macs on several diversity metrics.

In terms of practice areas, Travers' disputes team is still growing at a rate of knots and Travers' outperform Macs on PE work as far as I know. Travers has long since cut off private client work as it was much less profitable but required a lot of man-hours. For me, as someone interested in PE work, Travers was a more obvious choice than Macs. I also like the smaller trainee intake and office-share structure, among other elements. They're both, however, great firms which are very highly-respected and provide excellent opportunities.

Hope this helps

Definitely helps! Thanks a lot Jacob!

 

[Lumree]

Hi team!

In my answer to a ‘why this firm’ question I try to relate one point (usually out of three) back to my particular interest in corporate law as I enjoy understanding a business’s strategy and using the law to implement change. I tend to link this to a particular matter the firm has recently advised on and why that excited me.

Is that approach too specific? I find it difficult knowing whether it’s pigeonholing myself to a specific part of the firm or whether that’s the sort of detail they’re looking for, which I can then broaden in an interview to talk more widely about the types of clients it works for and the work it does for them is why I want to work there!

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Hello guys,


I hope all three of you are well.

If you are discussing M&A in an application question and making it personal to you can you link your interest in business to why M&A is personal to you. For example, I applied to the apprentice 4 years ago and can I discuss my interest in business through applying to the apprentice as M&A link to why M&A is personal to me.

 

[Naomi U]

Hi team!

In my answer to a ‘why this firm’ question I try to relate one point (usually out of three) back to my particular interest in corporate law as I enjoy understanding a business’s strategy and using the law to implement change. I tend to link this to a particular matter the firm has recently advised on and why that excited me.

Is that approach too specific? I find it difficult knowing whether it’s pigeonholing myself to a specific part of the firm or whether that’s the sort of detail they’re looking for, which I can then broaden in an interview to talk more widely about the types of clients it works for and the work it does for them is why I want to work there!

Hiya!

I don't think this is necessarily pigeonholing yourself. In fact, I think being specific is always better as it shows a more personal connection between your own motivations/interests and the particular firm. ☺️

 

[Naomi U]

Hello guys,


I hope all three of you are well.

If you are discussing M&A in an application question and making it personal to you can you link your interest in business to why M&A is personal to you. For example, I applied to the apprentice 4 years ago and can I discuss my interest in business through applying to the apprentice as M&A link to why M&A is personal to me.

Hiya!

I think it's always great to back up your interests with personal experiences. My only advice would be to consider the way you word your response so as to avoid expressing a generic interest in "business", but rather an interest in the legal nature of M&A. So consider the challenges and complexities that arose during your experience and how this links to the legalities surrounding M&A.

Hope this helps☺️

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Hiya!

I think it's always great to back up your interests with personal experiences. My only advice would be to consider the way you word your response so as to avoid expressing a generic interest in "business", but rather an interest in the legal nature of M&A. So consider the challenges and complexities that arose during your experience and how this links to the legalities surrounding M&A.

Hope this helps☺️

Thank you very much for this and I understand your point. It is all about linking my experience back to the role of a lawyer in M&A.

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hi team!

In my answer to a ‘why this firm’ question I try to relate one point (usually out of three) back to my particular interest in corporate law as I enjoy understanding a business’s strategy and using the law to implement change. I tend to link this to a particular matter the firm has recently advised on and why that excited me.

Is that approach too specific? I find it difficult knowing whether it’s pigeonholing myself to a specific part of the firm or whether that’s the sort of detail they’re looking for, which I can then broaden in an interview to talk more widely about the types of clients it works for and the work it does for them is why I want to work there!

I often found myself interlacing/ relaying back to parts of previous answers for these questions so I don't think it's the wrong approach at all!

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hello guys,


I hope all three of you are well.

If you are discussing M&A in an application question and making it personal to you can you link your interest in business to why M&A is personal to you. For example, I applied to the apprentice 4 years ago and can I discuss my interest in business through applying to the apprentice as M&A link to why M&A is personal to me.

I was midway through responding when I saw Naomi'a comment pop lol.

Suffice to say, I agree with everything she's said and don't have much to add 🙂

 

[Asil Ahmad]

I was midway through responding when I saw Naomi'a comment pop lol.

Suffice to say, I agree with everything she's said and don't have much to add 🙂

Haha thank you very much for your reply anway.

 

[iamJW]

Hi everyone! Thank you all for your amazing insights and advice! This question is specifically directed to @Jacob Miller . I have recently received an invitation to an interview with Travers Smith for the Summer VS and was wondering if you had any tips for preparation, what kind of questions to expect based on your own interview experiences and any general advice on how to approach the interview? Thanks!

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hi everyone! Thank you all for your amazing insights and advice! This question is specifically directed to @Jacob Miller . I have recently received an invitation to an interview with Travers Smith for the Summer VS and was wondering if you had any tips for preparation, what kind of questions to expect based on your own interview experiences and any general advice on how to approach the interview? Thanks!

First off, congratulations on the interview!

I would advise consulting my article on interviews, mainly because it's the biggest compendium of advice that I can really give! In terms of specific questions based on my experiences, I can't really provide a huge amount of information purely because this would risk distorting Grad Rec processes etc. Generally speaking, though, everything in the article is stuff I would advise anyway.

Personally, I found the Travers interview really enjoyable. All the usual things - making sure your commercial awareness is on point, having your different responses/ response types polished, etc etc are really what you need to bear in mind. Nothing particularly untoward in my experience

 

[lawstudent12345]

Hiya! I have a question specifically for @Dheepa and I hope this isn't rude, but I wanted to find out more about the Slaughter and May VS. I recently got an offer for the summer internship at Slaughters and as happy as I was three days ago, now I pretty much just feel stressed about converting it lol. Do you know what it was that lead to non-conversion for you? Thank you!

 

[AspiringSolicitor]

First off, congratulations on the interview!

I would advise consulting my article on interviews, mainly because it's the biggest compendium of advice that I can really give! In terms of specific questions based on my experiences, I can't really provide a huge amount of information purely because this would risk distorting Grad Rec processes etc. Generally speaking, though, everything in the article is stuff I would advise anyway.

Personally, I found the Travers interview really enjoyable. All the usual things - making sure your commercial awareness is on point, having your different responses/ response types polished, etc etc are really what you need to bear in mind. Nothing particularly untoward in my experience

Hey guys, thanks for your incredible insights/ advice - really can't thank you all enough! This question is mainly for @Jacob Miller, but would welcome anyone's thoughts

Yesterday, I received an invite to interview for the Travers Smith Summer VS so was keen to pick your brains! From my research so far, it appears there is little preparation that can be done for the interview (other than being hot on commercial awareness and being wary of ethical questions) and it also seems as if there's very few 'tell me about a time when...' type competency-based questions. How did you prepare for a conversation-style interview other than having the 'three why's' well polished and having your commercial awareness on point?

I also had a question on commercial awareness more specifically. In my experiences to date, I have been asked questions similar to 'tell me about a commercial news story that has interested you', which has led me down the route of Big Oil and their increasingly clean portfolios and how this reflects the rise of ESG in the stock market, etc (this is an area I have a particular interest in). However, from what I've read, it appears with Travers as though the Partner picks the story which is then discussed (this seems to be whatever is big in the news at the time - e.g. Carillion collapse in 2018). Whilst I know what's going on in the world (read FT, Finimize, Watson's Daily, listen to podcasts, etc), it is very difficult to have a deep understanding of EVERYTHING that is going on. Just a question more generally - how do you ensure you have a deep understanding of different perspectives/ implications of stories across the board rather than just specific areas of interest?

Sorry for rambling - hope that makes sense, let me know if not. Thanks in advance!

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hey guys, thanks for your incredible insights/ advice - really can't thank you all enough! This question is mainly for @Jacob Miller, but would welcome anyone's thoughts

Yesterday, I received an invite to interview for the Travers Smith Summer VS so was keen to pick your brains! From my research so far, it appears there is little preparation that can be done for the interview (other than being hot on commercial awareness and being wary of ethical questions) and it also seems as if there's very few 'tell me about a time when...' type competency-based questions. How did you prepare for a conversation-style interview other than having the 'three why's' well polished and having your commercial awareness on point?

I also had a question on commercial awareness more specifically. In my experiences to date, I have been asked questions similar to 'tell me about a commercial news story that has interested you', which has led me down the route of Big Oil and their increasingly clean portfolios and how this reflects the rise of ESG in the stock market, etc (this is an area I have a particular interest in). However, from what I've read, it appears with Travers as though the Partner picks the story which is then discussed (this seems to be whatever is big in the news at the time - e.g. Carillion collapse in 2018). Whilst I know what's going on in the world (read FT, Finimize, Watson's Daily, listen to podcasts, etc), it is very difficult to have a deep understanding of EVERYTHING that is going on. Just a question more generally - how do you ensure you have a deep understanding of different perspectives/ implications of stories across the board rather than just specific areas of interest?

Sorry for rambling - hope that makes sense, let me know if not. Thanks in advance!

Hi, thanks for reaching out.

Congratulations on securing your interview! I would tend to say you're along the right lines with what you're prepping for. I would advise consulting my "Definitive Guide to Interviews" article on these topics - there's nothing else I can really add on the points discussed there. In terms of my own prep, I just memorised key examples and how they related to key questions. I personally advise against trying to remember big scripts as this runs the risk of overloading your brain. Instead, remember key examples/ structures etc.

From what I remember (the major caveat being that I interviewed over a year ago now), I was asked a "tell me about a story..." question as opposed to being specifically led into discussing one topic. They might vary that by interviewer/ interviewee, though, or the process may simply have changed a bit since my interview cycle. If this is now the case, it's unlikely that they'll ask you to discuss anything obscure, so just ensure you're staying abreast of all the main commercial awareness-type stories/ current events and you should be fine.

In terms of how I approach ensuring that I cover all angles, generally I'd use a mind-map with the different stakeholders and just consider implications and ramifications on each group individually.

Hope this helps!

 

[AspiringSolicitor]

Hi, thanks for reaching out.

Congratulations on securing your interview! I would tend to say you're along the right lines with what you're prepping for. I would advise consulting my "Definitive Guide to Interviews" article on these topics - there's nothing else I can really add on the points discussed there. In terms of my own prep, I just memorised key examples and how they related to key questions. I personally advise against trying to remember big scripts as this runs the risk of overloading your brain. Instead, remember key examples/ structures etc.

From what I remember (the major caveat being that I interviewed over a year ago now), I was asked a "tell me about a story..." question as opposed to being specifically led into discussing one topic. They might vary that by interviewer/ interviewee, though, or the process may simply have changed a bit since my interview cycle. If this is now the case, it's unlikely that they'll ask you to discuss anything obscure, so just ensure you're staying abreast of all the main commercial awareness-type stories/ current events and you should be fine.

In terms of how I approach ensuring that I cover all angles, generally I'd use a mind-map with the different stakeholders and just consider implications and ramifications on each group individually.

Hope this helps!

Thanks so much @Jacob Miller, that's great. Really appreciate your thoughts - completely agree that mind-mapping is the way to go! Fingers crossed my interviewer goes with the typical 'tell me about a story...'!

 

[Dheepa]

Hiya! I have a question specifically for @Dheepa and I hope this isn't rude, but I wanted to find out more about the Slaughter and May VS. I recently got an offer for the summer internship at Slaughters and as happy as I was three days ago, now I pretty much just feel stressed about converting it lol. Do you know what it was that lead to non-conversion for you? Thank you!

Hey! Your question isn't rude at all haha! Completely understandable to want to know what went wrong for me. 😅

The S&M VS structure is pretty unconventional I think. When I did it in 2019, none of the work you do throughout the scheme is assessed in any way. While your supervising associate is given a feedback form to fill and can recommend if you should be made a TC offer, the final TC decision hinges solely on the case study and interview with the two partners. According to the feedback I received, I didn't show enough analytical ability in the case study and article discussion with the partners. And unfortunately for me, any work that I did produce throughout the scheme that maybe would have evidenced better analytical ability didn't get taken into account.

Honestly, the great thing about not being assessed on work throughout the scheme is that you can really take the opportunity to enjoy getting to know the firm. Set up coffees with people in different departments. reach out to anyone you'd like to do work for, just enjoy yourself really, because I think the scheme actually allows for that. I do think it matters that you show your enthusiasm to work at the firm though. GR were always at the back of the room during any talks or practice areas introductions we had and being the engaged person that always has questions prepared definitely makes a difference. Even with the scheme likely being virtual now this will probably still be the case. I've mentioned this elsewhere before but I realised pretty early on in the scheme that S&M was not the place for me and this probably affected my ability to be enthusiastic. Although this wasn't part of my official feedback, I'm sure it did in some way make a difference to me not getting the TC.

Other things worth knowing about the scheme is that you will get asked to re-submit a cover letter and CV through the application portal. Although GR will tell you nothing needs to change aside from updating module results or work experience, this is a really good opportunity for you to demonstrate what you've learnt about the firm during the VS and how your motivations for wanting to train at the firm have developed or changed. So make sure you keep track of any meaningful conversations you're having with people so you can draw upon them when you need to re-submit the CL.

For the final interview, expect the partners to push you a lot harder than they did during the VS interview. Across the board I think everyone on my VS felt that the TC interview was tougher so make sure you prepare for that (maybe book some mock interviews with your careers service or with TCLA). I would also recommend preparing heavily in advance for the case study. Brush up on your commercial awareness consistently and use the practice case studies on TCLA to improve your writing. The interview and case study are make or break at S&M and it can a very daunting thought but if you're preparing well in advance then you genuinely have nothing to worry about.

Hope that helps!

 

[lawstudent12345]

Hey! Your question isn't rude at all haha! Completely understandable to want to know what went wrong for me. 😅

The S&M VS structure is pretty unconventional I think. When I did it in 2019, none of the work you do throughout the scheme is assessed in any way. While your supervising associate is given a feedback form to fill and can recommend if you should be made a TC offer, the final TC decision hinges solely on the case study and interview with the two partners. According to the feedback I received, I didn't show enough analytical ability in the case study and article discussion with the partners. And unfortunately for me, any work that I did produce throughout the scheme that maybe would have evidenced better analytical ability didn't get taken into account.

Honestly, the great thing about not being assessed on work throughout the scheme is that you can really take the opportunity to enjoy getting to know the firm. Set up coffees with people in different departments. reach out to anyone you'd like to do work for, just enjoy yourself really, because I think the scheme actually allows for that. I do think it matters that you show your enthusiasm to work at the firm though. GR were always at the back of the room during any talks or practice areas introductions we had and being the engaged person that always has questions prepared definitely makes a difference. Even with the scheme likely being virtual now this will probably still be the case. I've mentioned this elsewhere before but I realised pretty early on in the scheme that S&M was not the place for me and this probably affected my ability to be enthusiastic. Although this wasn't part of my official feedback, I'm sure it did in some way make a difference to me not getting the TC.

Other things worth knowing about the scheme is that you will get asked to re-submit a cover letter and CV through the application portal. Although GR will tell you nothing needs to change aside from updating module results or work experience, this is a really good opportunity for you to demonstrate what you've learnt about the firm during the VS and how your motivations for wanting to train at the firm have developed or changed. So make sure you keep track of any meaningful conversations you're having with people so you can draw upon them when you need to re-submit the CL.

For the final interview, expect the partners to push you a lot harder than they did during the VS interview. Across the board I think everyone on my VS felt that the TC interview was tougher so make sure you prepare for that (maybe book some mock interviews with your careers service or with TCLA). I would also recommend preparing heavily in advance for the case study. Brush up on your commercial awareness consistently and use the practice case studies on TCLA to improve your writing. The interview and case study are make or break at S&M and it can a very daunting thought but if you're preparing well in advance then you genuinely have nothing to worry about.

Hope that helps!

Thank you so much, this is extremely detailed and so helpful! Really appreciate it

 

[Dheepa]

Hi, hope you are well! Could I seek your advice on preparing for an article discussion interview? Thank you

Hiya!

I had to do an assessment like this on two occasions myself and I think the best possible thing you can do is to practice reading and analysing articles yourself in the run up to the interview.

Pick an article, give yourself 15 minutes to analyse it, then talk your thoughts through aloud (if you can find a friend who will discuss it with you even better). Always lead the discussion with a short summary of the article, what the key issues are and what your opinion is (practice doing this as well!)

I would recommend using the opinion type articles from sites like New York Times and the Financial Times for this because these kind of articles have a strong view or argument underlying them and are designed to make you think about what you agree/disagree with and your opinions on the matter. This is ultimately what the firm will be trying to test, your ability to form a strong opinion and defend it if necessary.

Try to be well rounded in your analysis of the article as well. Don't limit yourself to only discussing commercial issues (although I would say this is the most important view to take) that come up but feel free to pick up on any underlying social issues within the article. Obviously this heavily depends on the kind of article you get given but I think the more holistic you are the better.

The one final thing I would recommend doing is once you've analyse the article and developed your points for your preferred argument or side, take a break come back to it and think about analysing the issues from the other perspective. The partners interviewing you are going to throw opposing arguments or points your way and if you can practice being able to pre-empt what those might be you'll be in a great position to handle the follow up questions in the interview. I also think the key to doing well in interviews like this is also to be able to demonstrate that you can accept opposing viewpoints and rework your stance where necessary so again practicing looking at the article from the other side will help you do this more naturally.

Hope this helps!

 

[ECNWalker]

Hi!

I was wondering if you have any advice on preparing for written assessments. I have one this week and we've been told it is a 'written analytical assessment based around a shareholders' agreement and reflective of a typical trainee task'.

I've never done a written exercise before, so would welcome any advice/what they look for when marking it if possible!

Thank you!

 

[FL0011]

Hi @Jacob Miller, @Naomi U and @Dheepa!

I was hoping to ask for some advice as to how you made your decisions on where to interview and accept TC offers from.

I am a career changer and this is my first cycle applying. I was lucky enough to secure 5 ACs - two of which I completed and received one TC and one VS offer. I ended up declining two of them and I now have one more to go. The problem is that I am experiencing severe burnout after this application process to the point where I am struggling to even complete university work, so I have not even started to prep for my final interview. I am really keen to accept my TC offer, but I feel a bit sad about all the events I attended for the final firm and how much effort I put in the application will go to waste (ultimately, they were still my top three choice of firm). I never thought I would be in this position haha!

What would be your advice to me in this situation? And how did you go about making these decisions for yourself?

Do you think it is worth risking current wellbeing and workload for an opportunity that may never come again?

Sorry to ramble - I am so confused and do not know many people who can help me with advice like this!

Thank you