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- Thread starter Jacob Miller
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@Jacob Miller @Dheepa @Naomi U Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences on this thread, I would be grateful to get an honest understanding of whether having ALevels of ABC but majority 1sts in uni modules will set me back in applications to more elite firms (Magic Circle, US) even those who specify they take the whole application into consideration. Do you feel it's worth the time and effort trying to make applications for such firms with grades like these?
Hi,
It's a very good question! I actually covered this earlier in a thread in "My Training Contract Journey"- I've pasted the quote script for that comment below so hopefully it should work properly- if it doesn't format properly then I'll tag you in that thread so you can see my thoughts
To summarise, though, it will depend a lot on the firm. As I say in the other post, maybe reach out to their Grad Rec team to explain your situation and ask directly whether they feel that you stand a reasonable chance of success notwithstanding the quality of your application. It is very true that firms are looking for a lot more than just academics, though, so don't by any means rule yourself out just because you have a few poorer grades from school! Also be sure to explain properly any relevant mitigating circumstances that may have affected your grades at that time.
Jessica Booker
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- Aug 1, 2019
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Would you be flagged under any contextual recruitment processes (e.g. under performing state school, personal circusmtances such as working part-time during your A-levels etc)?
@Jessica Booker Hi Jessica, I went to a normal state-school although it wasn't known for being outstanding or underperforming so not sure in that respect, I did work in a supermarket part-time 3 days a week during my A levels and work during university term time.
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you’d possibly be flagged in a contextual recruitment process then. For firms that use a contextualised recruitment process and where you are only a grade or two below their expectations, I might apply anyway.
Hi guys! Thanks so much for doing this. A feedback on my last interview was that I wasn’t very confident in what I was saying. I keep trying to work on this and when I record myself I sound confident but obviously it’s a different story when I’m actually in an interview! Honestly it’s not even the fact I’m nervous, I guess I don’t want to come across cocky so much I am just completely underestimating my abilities.
Do you have any tips on overcoming this? I feel like I’m a chatty person who’s not actually introverted at all but I am intimidated by these interviews terribly!
Do you have any tips on overcoming this? I feel like I’m a chatty person who’s not actually introverted at all but I am intimidated by these interviews terribly!
That's totally understandable, and I can honestly say that, having been there myself, I can empathise with you.
In terms of practical steps, the main things I would do to try and sound more confident- even if you don't necessarily feel it- in an interview setting are to really monitor the speed at which you talk (one of the biggest giveaways of nervousness is to talk too fast) and to make sure you take a couple of seconds, a sip of water and a deep breath before you start talking. If you have a little routine or ritual to go through during interviews, this can also ground you and help kill some of the nerves.
In terms of worrying about coming off cocky, don't worry about this too much- remember that you're there most of all to sell yourself to the interviewer and you can't do that if you're not confident in your abilities! Obviously, there is a line between confidence and arrogance- not one which it is advisable to cross- but as long as you remember that line, it's absolutely fine to be confident in the skills and abilities you possess.
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I really relate to this. I was completely unconfident in my interviews in my first cycle that I often came across as very robotic and stoic when that's the complete opposite of my actual personality.
The biggest thing I did to increase my confidence was talk to myself. I know it sounds crazy but before an interview I would genuinely try to imagine myself in a room answering questions about myself and my experiences. Not only did this help me become more confident in the things that I was saying (because I'd already repeated them to myself so many times), but it really helped me relax myself because when I did repeat them in an interview context, it felt no different from all the self conversing I'd done on my own.
Another thing I always tried to remind myself of is that partners are ordinary people too. They are there in that room because they genuinely want to know more about you and everything you bring to the table. The best interviews I've had are ones where I've reminded myself of this and managed to just have a good back and forth conversation with the partners. Tangible things you can do to help with that is smiling at things they've said (sounds simple I know but works wonders), posing questions on their views (after you've answered of course) if you're discussing a commercial awareness topic, and maybe even truthfully answering the how are you doing question all interviews tend to start with. I once got asked this and fully mentioned that while I was nervous I managed to relax myself by watching a pretty well known movie last night and the partner and I fully had a five minute conversation on that movie after that before starting the interview. In other words, really let your chatty personality shine through!
Small things like this really demonstrate that you are a confident person who can hold your own in a room despite any stumbles you might make during the actual interview. As Jacob has already said, interviewers will rarely ever see someone as cocky or arrogant if you're simply highlighting the truly impressive things you've done. I imagine behaviour that maybe would come across as arrogant would if you're being loud and brash, rudely disagreeing with your interviewers, or making overly friendly and informal remarks. I think that as long as you avoid doing any of these things, it would be very difficult to perceive you as being cocky. Remember that you are there because they really do want to know about your experiences, and its much better to make a strong impression with by detailing the true extent of everything you've done rather than underselling yourself.
Hi all, thank you for doing this! @Naomi U, I have a question if you wouldn’t mind answering it whenever you get the time!!
I saw on your post that you did a vacation scheme at Linklaters and secured the TC (v impressive). I’ve got my TC interview next week for Linklaters following the winter scheme, and I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind imparting some advice/tips for the interview... thank you!!!
I saw on your post that you did a vacation scheme at Linklaters and secured the TC (v impressive). I’ve got my TC interview next week for Linklaters following the winter scheme, and I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind imparting some advice/tips for the interview... thank you!!!
- Feb 17, 2018
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I really relate to this. I was completely unconfident in my interviews in my first cycle that I often came across as very robotic and stoic when that's the complete opposite of my actual personality.
The biggest thing I did to increase my confidence was talk to myself. I know it sounds crazy but before an interview I would genuinely try to imagine myself in a room answering questions about myself and my experiences. Not only did this help me become more confident in the things that I was saying (because I'd already repeated them to myself so many times), but it really helped me relax myself because when I did repeat them in an interview context, it felt no different from all the self conversing I'd done on my own.
Another thing I always tried to remind myself of is that partners are ordinary people too. They are there in that room because they genuinely want to know more about you and everything you bring to the table. The best interviews I've had are ones where I've reminded myself of this and managed to just have a good back and forth conversation with the partners. Tangible things you can do to help with that is smiling at things they've said (sounds simple I know but works wonders), posing questions on their views (after you've answered of course) if you're discussing a commercial awareness topic, and maybe even truthfully answering the how are you doing question all interviews tend to start with. I once got asked this and fully mentioned that while I was nervous I managed to relax myself by watching a pretty well known movie last night and the partner and I fully had a five minute conversation on that movie after that before starting the interview. In other words, really let your chatty personality shine through!
As Jacob has already said, interviewers will rarely ever see someone as cocky or arrogant if you're simply highlighting the truly impressive things you've done. I imagine behaviour that maybe would come across as arrogant would if you're being loud and brash, rudely disagreeing with your interviewers, or making overly friendly and informal remarks. I think that as long as you avoid doing any of these things, it would be very difficult to perceive you as being cocky. Remember that you are there because they really do want to know about your experiences, and its much better to make a strong impression with by detailing the true extent of everything you've done rather than underselling yourself.
Love this. I used to do something similar: I'd imagine that I already knew the interviewer and I was just heading back for a conversation. That's not to say I wasn't still formal, but I found this helped me to break out of 'interview mode' and build a closer rapport with a partner.
Hi guys! Thank you for setting up this thread.
I was wondering roughly how many firms you all applied to? I have sent off 10 applications so far for spring/summer vac schemes. Some of them I've been invited to do WG tests, and one so far I have been invited to do a VI which I am yet to complete. I haven't had any rejections as of yet but a few of them are non-rolling so I won't hear until after the deadline. I am torn between firing off a few more applications before the January deadlines, or whether to have confidence in the ones I have sent and start prepping for the next rounds in the hopes that I get invited. I know that 'quality over quantity' is often the recommended approach, but equally I have also heard that luck can play a part with applications, so sending more off may increase my chances of success.
Any advice appreciated!
Hi @DJMG
I definitely sympathise with you- it is always tough during the initial waiting period to decide whether or not to send more applications off.
Similarly to you I also sent 10 applications which I think is a nice base number, as although you want to increase your chances, you also don't want to be applying to firms you have no interest in merely for the sake of it.
I think if you are confident in the applications you have sent, especially considering the fact you have yet to receive a rejection, then there is nothing wrong with you stopping there. In my case, out of the first 5 I sent off, I received 1 interview which was unfortunately unsuccessful. The rest were straight rejections. As you can imagine I was extremely disheartened.
I remember feeling so anxious over the Christmas break because I was convinced that the applications I sent thereafter, would also be unsuccessful. But ironically, I was invited to 4 interviews out of my remaining 5 applications. The turnaround was so quick that I even ended up having my first 3 interviews back to back on the same week, and my last, the following week!
With this in mind, my advice would be that if you have sent off applications to all the firms you are interested in, then don't be afraid to wait it out. I know the waiting period can feel like forever, but it can pay off and I'm sure it will in your case!
Best of luck and keep us updated!
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Thank you so much-that's really useful advice. I think I will have confidence in the ones I've sent off, and resist sending off any more for the sake of it. Thanks again
Hi @M1999
This was the feedback I received from my first interview! I would also describe myself as a chatty individual, but I know all too well how nerve-racking interviews can be. It's especially frustrating when you know that you know the answer, but your nerves and anxiety cloud your performance.
When trying to improve my own confidence in interviews and in general during the application and assessment process, I think that my improvements were a result of both mental and practical preparation.
Mental Preparation
I personally believe that self-confidence is crucial. You need to believe that you can do it! I know this may seem easier said than done, but it's all about altering your mindset. Getting to the interview stage in itself, means that your application when screened against hundreds of others, if not thousands, was strong and stood out.
The recruiters believe that you are a strong and capable candidate, and so you must believe that also. I think there is a fine line between being cocky vs being confident. Being proud of your achievements and selling yourself in an interview is far from the former and judging by your question, you are clearly very self-aware which is an amazing and valuable trait to possess.
For your next interview, prepare as you would, then proceed to the interview with the belief that you are indeed a strong and capable candidate.
Remember, a rejection may simply mean the firm wasn’t the right one for you.
Practical Preparation
Whilst developing self-confidence is crucial, of course practice is also key! Recording yourself answering questions is a great idea!
This allows you to gauge any mannerisms you do unconsciously e.g. touching your hair too often or using your hands excessively. If you can, practicing with another person is also great, as this way the feedback is live as it would be in a real interview. Now that most interviews are virtual, this can be done by organising a zoom call with a friend or even with a family member in the next room.
Some more practical tips include:
1. Slow down. Before you answer any question, repeat, or reword the question again either aloud or in your head before beginning your response.
This gives you a few seconds to centre your thoughts and to remember the answer that you have more than likely prepared. This will also help you come across in control and measured in your responses.
Example:
Q: Why do you want to pursue a career in commercial law?
A: I am drawn to a career in commercial law for a number of reasons. The first is ....
2. Logical Reasoning. It is inevitable in an interview that you may be asked a question that you are unsure about, meaning you may have to make an educated guess. To do so, don't be afraid to ask the interviewer to clarify a point or to give some more context. Using this technique, you can then frame your answers as such;
" with regard to X circumstances, I think the best solution would be X because....".
Doing this helps show that you possess a logical chain of reason. This is often what your interviewers will be looking for rather than necessarily a "right answer”, as it shows the ability to think on your feet and reach a conclusion using the facts given to you.
I hope this helps.
Best of luck for your next interview & keep us updated!
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Thank you so much-that's really useful advice. I think I will have confidence in the ones I've sent off, and resist sending off any more for the sake of it. Thanks again
No problem at all!
Best of luck!
Hi all - thank you for giving up your time to do this! I have a question for Jacob and Naomi. I am due to attend a Vacation Scheme assessment centre at Herbert Smith Freehills next month. Do you have any tips on how best to prepare for it and what to expect from the day?
Hi!
Naomi actually wrote a couple of phenomenal pointers for the HSF AC recently in another thread (https://www.thecorporatelawacademy.com/forum/threads/hsf-assessment-centre.2899/) which you may find helpful!
In summary, familiarising yourself with the basic mechanics and timeline of a transaction from start to finish is extremely helpful- I also found it helpful to have a basic understanding of contracts and contract law (if you're a law student, you'll be absolutely fine) with an emphasis on common sets of terms in commercial contracts e.g. force majeure clauses, etc.
The case study interview was the bit I found the hardest, I didn't focus enough on the structure of my presentation because I was so concerned with identifying all the possible areas of content- in turn, I wasn't able to structure my response well and didn't do so well at this part of the AC. Focus on your structure and remember to bear in mind the interests of the various stakeholders in the given situation.
This is so so helpful, thank you so much!!!! I had the best experience there so hopefully I'll be able to convert it hahaha
Hi @PP27 - congratulations on getting the AC!
In terms of the presentation, I generally speaking broke it down, key issue by key issue, either chronologically (as they appeared in the facts) or in order of importance- I believe the latter is a much better approach, it was always the one I got better feedback for.
In terms of tackling the CS, I always started by making a little diagram of the key parties (i.e., my client, the target company, key stakeholders in the target) and then essentially writing in key issues related to each of those parties in a mind map around the diagram I've already got drawn. From there, I would identify certain key points to bring up: say, for example, in the context of an acquisition, the target has a patent for a key product but it's due to expire in 6 months. They also have employees in factories across Europe, and supply chains into the UK from European countries. Two of the members of the target's board are key figures who your client wants to stay on, but you have information that they may be reluctant to. Finally, there are rumours that the target company may have undisclosed litigation hanging over it.
I would decide which of these were the most important and develop a hierarchy to cover in the order- this hierarchy could depend on whether there was emphasis placed on certain points in the mock brief. After developing my hierarchy, I would then identify key next steps (e.g., find out more about X, gather more info through DD, ask for disclosure of certain facts, ask for warranties and indemnities on certain issues in the SPA/ APA) for each key area, as well as identifying the department within the firm who would be best served carrying that out (e.g., they may need employment specialists, real estate specialists, litigation specialists etc) and also identify which key international jurisdictions are engaged by the facts. Do A&O have offices in all the key jurisdictions? If not, what is the fall-back plan in terms of instructing local specialists as required? Understand the commercial implications of your next steps too: e.g., what advice is going to be the most commercially efficient in the context of each issue? Don't be afraid to suggest that certain information coming to light may also strengthen your client's negotiating position as well as potentially cause concerns.
Remember that you'll almost never pick out all the issues- a Partner/ SA who's interviewing you will almost invariably spot something you've overlooked. That's normal, and it's how they assess your ability to think on your feet and respond to new information that you've not had any time to prepare. At these points, don't be afraid to take a couple of seconds to think, take a sip of water etc. If you're confused by the question, ask politely for the interviewer to clarify or rephrase their question- the interviewer will often give you a nudge in the right direction. If you're really really struggling, sometimes it's better to admit that you're unsure (I would typically phrase this along the lines of "I'm really sorry, but I'm not completely sure of the best advice to give for that particular issue and I would need to check with one of our specialists in this area" (If you're going full role-play, you could even add something like "I can follow up with you after our meeting once I've checked, if that would work for you?").
I always found the CS interview the hardest of the three- often this was because the interviewer would be 'in character' and so it is a little harder to build a rapport before the questions start. Just try not to panic or overthink, and stick to a nice clear structure. Taking notes during the discussion is also fine if the interviewer raises a key issue that you want to link into your presentation.
Hope this is helpful, best of luck with your AC!
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