Ask 3 future trainees (Magic & Silver Circle, International Elite) ANYTHING! *New TCLA Team Members*

[nina_123]

Hi @nina_123

Congrats on your vac scheme!

I was in a very similar experience to you last year. My approach may differ to others, as to be totally honest once I got my vac schemes I switched my focus entirely to uni. Applications are very hard in themselves and took a huge tole on me mentally and academically so my primary focus was getting these back up again. I think this is very important as arguably, it's all good and well prepping commercially but failing as a result will undermine any gains on that part.

Once my exams were over, I switched back to my "commercial" brain, and started listening to my podcasts again ( my favourites were BBC's Wake Up to Money and a podcast on Spotify called The Commercial Awareness Podcast" by Tapiwa Museba). I also started to prep in terms of my general understanding of law firms, deals and the role of a solicitor- TCLA has some great articles on this and another big help was the Commercial Law Handbook by Jake Schogger. Finally, I would also recommend if you have time perhaps doing a virtual internship- there are some great ones of InsideSherpa, I know the Bright Network also did one last year. This definitely helped again to give me a greater insight as to the types of tasks carried out by a trainee.

To sum all this up, I think you have to be honest with yourself about what you can reasonably handle. If you have time to start prepping now then go for it! But if not, don't feel like you have to start months before in order to be successful.

Hope this helps & best of luck for your summer vac scheme! ☺️

Thank you so much!! Your advice is super helpful, I really appreciate it!!

 

[pbyrne]

Hi,

In re question 1, I would tend to say that you don't need to be at the firm to approach this answer in a meaningful way. There are numerous different angles you could take this: diversifying practice areas, changing client offerings, new offices, diversity drives etc etc. Anything, within reason, is valid here so long as you can back it up with sound reasoning and logic.

For question 2, just think through this logically. What would you do if you were opening up a business? I've launched and operated 3 businesses now since before I started Uni. The first flopped because I didn't adequately understand the market I was breaking into, didn't do enough research, didn't specify my market offering well enough and didn't take proper steps to build a brand. The second and third businesses I've launched, which I'm still involved in as of right now, I didn't make those same mistakes. To that end, I would suggest things like market research, product/ service development pre-launch, continuing to develop offerings post-launch, proper brand-building before launch so you've an established market before you start to ask for people's money.

Thank you this is really helpful - the second question does seem much more straightforward after seeing your answer - I think I just panicked! Thanks again.

 

[pbyrne]

There’s been quite a lot of discussion on this question in the forums recently on the first question. I’m gonna link you to some things that have already been said:





Otherwise, diversity is a perfectly acceptable thing to mention however I would encourage you to really substantiate your answer with statistics and also be as specific as possible about what initiatives the firm can introduce to address the issue.

For the second question, that's admittedly a really broad question so personally I'd probably start my answer by saying I'd ask my friend for more context on the business model, it's product and how he intends to generate revenue. I think maybe that would demonstrate that you understand the best kind of advice is tailored business specific advice but maybe only do this if the word count allows it. Some general advice I'd probably offer after that would look at things like:

1. Ensure the product/business has a USP that is not easily replicate/available on the market
2. How will the business ensure customer loyalty? Who is the target market? What are their needs and how does the business fulfil them? I think an increasingly important factor for business is being able to cater to changing consumer demands (think of all the trouble the retail industry is having and the shift from mere stores to providing a shopping experience). Another point you could make here is how environmentally conscious consumers are and how maybe the business should capitalise on this ESG focus.
3. Capital. How will your friend fund the business? A loan or investment from others, i.e. debt or equity. Which would you advise him to choose? Bear in mind that for a small business just starting out the arguments in favour of one or the other change drastically from the information on the internet, although I don't think there is a specific right answer.
4. Having a strong long term business plan. What is the business's target profit, how much would need to be reinvested to develop the efficiency of the business (increasing product offering, increasing distribution capabilities) what is the business's strategic goal? It's hard for businesses to last long if they only have one successful product that they don't try to then expand on/if they don't have a larger vision for the business.

If you have the time I'd encourage you to watch this video by Will Ackman

It's on investing in a business but he actually makes some really good points on what makes a good business to begin with which may be helpful for your question. It's a rather long video though so maybe watch it on double speed haha.

I hope that helps!

Thanks so much this is SO so helpful - particularly your advice on the second question, I feel much more confident answering these now.

 

[pbyrne]

That Bill Ackman video is so good! Another one is Ray Dalio: 'How the Economy works' which I'll link here:

Thank you very much this is super helpful!

 

[castrooo]

Hi @Dheepa @Naomi U @Jacob Miller

I am currently preparing for my upcoming interview with Withers. I wondered if you could advise me on how to best prepare for an interview with a (predominantly) private client law firm (Withers) as opposed to commercial law firms?

I have interviewed with a couple of commercial law firms but am unsure how I should change my approach now when preparing for my upcoming interview with Withers! Any help would be much appreciated as this is very unfamiliar territory to me!

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hi @Dheepa @Naomi U @Jacob Miller

I am currently preparing for my upcoming interview with Withers. I wondered if you could advise me on how to best prepare for an interview with a (predominantly) private client law firm (Withers) as opposed to commercial law firms?

I have interviewed with a couple of commercial law firms but am unsure how I should change my approach now when preparing for my upcoming interview with Withers! Any help would be much appreciated as this is very unfamiliar territory to me!

Hey, great question!

I haven't interviewed with a private client firm personally, but I would approach it along a few broad lines:
- firstly, it's going to be particularly relevant to a few specific interview questions: "why us?"/ "what other firms have you applied to?" etc etc. You can use your standard structure here but you obviously need to focus in on the specifics of private client work and why you find that attractive.
- look where the main differences are in advising private clients vs international conglomerates. Rather than interacting with the 15-year PQE in-house GC with all his understanding and experience, you're interacting with Joe Bloggs and Jane Doe. How do you need to adapt your approach to interacting with these types of people?
- consider as well what skills are applicable to both practice areas as these are likely to be key to a career in any legal specialism. Don't get so caught up in the nuances that you forget to build a really solid foundation!

Best of luck with your AC

 

[Legalmel_99]

Hi all

I just wanted to know if you’s know any websites which are good for strength based interviews? Most firms I’ve applied to now take this approach.

or any advice on how to do well during these type of interviews?

thankyou!

 

[Naomi U]

Hi @Dheepa @Naomi U @Jacob Miller

I am currently preparing for my upcoming interview with Withers. I wondered if you could advise me on how to best prepare for an interview with a (predominantly) private client law firm (Withers) as opposed to commercial law firms?

I have interviewed with a couple of commercial law firms but am unsure how I should change my approach now when preparing for my upcoming interview with Withers! Any help would be much appreciated as this is very unfamiliar territory to me!

Hiya!

Congrats on your AC ☺️

I agree very much with Jacob. I think your general preparations would be very similar to a commercial interview in terms of prepping for commercial awareness, motivations and competency questions. However as Withers has a predominately private client base extra emphasis would need to be placed on the "private" nature of the firm. So this would tie into everything meaning I would make sure to consider things like:

-What are the differences in the impact of COVID-19 on private firms as opposed to commercial firms?
-What are some key trends/deals/stories impacting private firms?
-Why a private firm over a commercial firm?
-What do you think are the key differences in the day to day roles and expectations of solicitors in private firms as opposed to commercial law firms?

Sorry I couldn't be more specific as I don't have much experience with private firms, but this would definitely be the type of approach I would take when preparing.

Hope this helps & best of luck ☺️

 

[castrooo]

Hey, great question!

I haven't interviewed with a private client firm personally, but I would approach it along a few broad lines:
- firstly, it's going to be particularly relevant to a few specific interview questions: "why us?"/ "what other firms have you applied to?" etc etc. You can use your standard structure here but you obviously need to focus in on the specifics of private client work and why you find that attractive.
- look where the main differences are in advising private clients vs international conglomerates. Rather than interacting with the 15-year PQE in-house GC with all his understanding and experience, you're interacting with Joe Bloggs and Jane Doe. How do you need to adapt your approach to interacting with these types of people?
- consider as well what skills are applicable to both practice areas as these are likely to be key to a career in any legal specialism. Don't get so caught up in the nuances that you forget to build a really solid foundation!

Best of luck with your AC

Hiya!

Congrats on your AC ☺️

I agree very much with Jacob. I think your general preparations would be very similar to a commercial interview in terms of prepping for commercial awareness, motivations and competency questions. However as Withers has a predominately private client base extra emphasis would need to be placed on the "private" nature of the firm. So this would tie into everything meaning I would make sure to consider things like:

-What are the differences in the impact of COVID-19 on private firms as opposed to commercial firms?
-What are some key trends/deals/stories impacting private firms?
-Why a private firm over a commercial firm?
-What do you think are the key differences in the day to day roles and expectations of solicitors in private firms as opposed to commercial law firms?

Sorry I couldn't be more specific as I don't have much experience with private firms, but this would definitely be the type of approach I would take when preparing.

Hope this helps & best of luck ☺️

Thank you both!! This is very helpful!

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hi all

I just wanted to know if you’s know any websites which are good for strength based interviews? Most firms I’ve applied to now take this approach.

or any advice on how to do well during these type of interviews?

thankyou!

Hi,

All my advice is really in this article that I wrote recently on the subject, in case you hadn't seen it already:

Definitive Guide to Law Firm Interviews! *Monday Article Series*

In this week's (slightly delayed - sorry!) Article, we take a look at law firm interviews. Introduction Almost every law firm’s application process involves some form of interview. This style of interview is designed to find out about your motivations, experiences, skills and characteristics...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

In terms of other websites etc I don't really have any experience using any... I tended to just fumble around myself until I found a method that worked!

 

[Legalmel_99]

Hi,

All my advice is really in this article that I wrote recently on the subject, in case you hadn't seen it already:

Definitive Guide to Law Firm Interviews! *Monday Article Series*

In this week's (slightly delayed - sorry!) Article, we take a look at law firm interviews. Introduction Almost every law firm’s application process involves some form of interview. This style of interview is designed to find out about your motivations, experiences, skills and characteristics...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

In terms of other websites etc I don't really have any experience using any... I tended to just fumble around myself until I found a method that worked!

Thankyou so much I’ll have a look at this

 

[Lastseasonwonder]

Hey!

What do you guys make of committee positions (and other extra-curricular activities)? Do they really give you a better chance in securing a VS/TC?

Sometimes, I feel like it is better to focus on uni grades and write strong apps rather than taking a lot of time on committee positions. With that said some people do com positions and get TCs and others don't.

I believe this depends on opinion and different people have a different approach to securing a TC.

What are your opinions considering all having secured TCs and having different journeys?

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hey!

What do you guys make of committee positions (and other extra-curricular activities)? Do they really give you a better chance in securing a VS/TC?

Sometimes, I feel like it is better to focus on uni grades and write strong apps rather than taking a lot of time on committee positions. With that said some people do com positions and get TCs and others don't.

I believe this depends on opinion and different people have a different approach to securing a TC.

What are your opinions considering all having secured TCs and having different journeys?

Great question! To be honest, I don't think there is necessarily a right or wrong answer. Personally, I've only ever done one EC and never held a committee position at Uni level; I've never felt as if I'm at a disadvantage for that, either. I've always focussed on working and earning so the vast majority of my non-law experience is of being self-employed so I was really primarily asked about that in interviews. I was never asked "why don't you have any ECs?" for example, nor anything even hinting at it.

I think that the skills gained are far more important than a given role in the abstract. Yes, committee position ECs are great for showing responsibility etc, but, then again, so are many other things. I think the application process is more about leveraging any and every bit of experience you have rather than what those particular experiences are (within reason, of course!)

Hope that helps, would be really interested to hear others' opinions

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey!

What do you guys make of committee positions (and other extra-curricular activities)? Do they really give you a better chance in securing a VS/TC?

Sometimes, I feel like it is better to focus on uni grades and write strong apps rather than taking a lot of time on committee positions. With that said some people do com positions and get TCs and others don't.

I believe this depends on opinion and different people have a different approach to securing a TC.

What are your opinions considering all having secured TCs and having different journeys?

You need to show you are making a commitment to something outside of your studies. Firms generally like candidates who keep themselves busy because a degree isn’t like working and to be quite frank doesn’t develop most of the skills needed to be a good lawyer. Balancing multiple commitments mimics some of the pressures of working in a law firm too.

But it doesn’t have to be a society committee role. There will be other commitments out there that will have as much “impressiveness” to them and in many cases more so. That might be a part time job, that maybe running a side hussle business, it might be sport, it might be volunteering.

Add in a committee position title alone means very little, in the same way a job title often means very little too. It’s going to be much more about what you achieved in that role, the impact you had in it and the skills/knowledge you gained from it. There are plenty of people who take on committee roles and don’t really show much for it, while others transform their responsibilities/outcomes while in the role.

 

[Naomi U]

Hey!

What do you guys make of committee positions (and other extra-curricular activities)? Do they really give you a better chance in securing a VS/TC?

Sometimes, I feel like it is better to focus on uni grades and write strong apps rather than taking a lot of time on committee positions. With that said some people do com positions and get TCs and others don't.

I believe this depends on opinion and different people have a different approach to securing a TC.

What are your opinions considering all having secured TCs and having different journeys?

Hi Dwight!

I agree very much with Jessica and Jacob. I don't think they give you a better chance per se. I wasn't super active within university societies/committees but I did have quite a number of roles outside of uni and was very involved in a few networks. So I really don't think its a matter of title but rather a matter of experience and impact. Title alone won't be enough to talk about in an interview because your interviewers will want to hear about your personal experiences, challenges you have faced and overcome etc. I don't think there is a perfect route or a set number of things that must appear on your application.

I think firm's just like to see that you are a well-rounded individual with a keen interest in commercial law- the means through which this is shown will inevitably vary amongst individuals.

Hope this helps ☺️

 

[Dheepa]

Hey!

What do you guys make of committee positions (and other extra-curricular activities)? Do they really give you a better chance in securing a VS/TC?

Sometimes, I feel like it is better to focus on uni grades and write strong apps rather than taking a lot of time on committee positions. With that said some people do com positions and get TCs and others don't.

I believe this depends on opinion and different people have a different approach to securing a TC.

What are your opinions considering all having secured TCs and having different journeys?

Completely agree with everything that as already been said so I won't add too much but, in my final year I consciously chose to turn down the President role for a society because I realised the title alone wouldn't add much and I felt that everything I had already done up to that point, through smaller roles in other societies, things I had done before university and my part-time job gave me a wealth of experiences I could draw upon.

I don't think wanting to focus on university and writing good applications is a bad thing at all and I do agree that it could be beneficial to make sure 100% of your free time is dedicated to the application process but echoing what everyone else has said, you'd need to be able to show law firms that you are able to perform in situations similar to ones you might encounter in the workplace (and academics alone do not provide this)

My point is don't feel the need to take on huge time intensive roles just for the title. Instead make full use of any roles and experiences you already do have, and really try to objectively assess if you've gained enough skills through them.

 

[Daniel Boden]

Just to add my 2 cents to the above, for me I would highly recommend getting involved in societies and extracurricular activities. I'm a very keen sportsman and really tried to get involved with the law society and really enjoyed training/playing matches and working on the committee of the law society primarily to give me a break from applications and academic study.

Obviously, this also gave me the opportunity to talk about these experiences at interview so I'd highly encourage you to get stuck in whilst you're at university - you won't have another opportunity to do as many ECs and make the most of your time in this way once you graduate and start working!

 

[aspiringm&alawyer]

Hi, I'm in the second year of my LLB and unfortunately didn't manage to get any vacation schemes this year. Can you apply for vacation schemes in your third year or is it a direct TC? Secondly, if I don't get a TC at all, what should I do? I cannot self-fund the LPC so should I look for paralegal work?

 

[Naomi U]

Hi, I'm in the second year of my LLB and unfortunately didn't manage to get any vacation schemes this year. Can you apply for vacation schemes in your third year or is it a direct TC? Secondly, if I don't get a TC at all, what should I do? I cannot self-fund the LPC so should I look for paralegal work?

Hiya,

It is definitely possible to get a vacation scheme in your third year and even after graduation. It may vary from firm to firm, but generally speaking I know many people who did vacation schemes and secured tcs in their final year and beyond, so I wouldn't worry too much on that element - there is no time limit, you will definitely be able to apply to a wide range of firms.

Paralegal work is a great idea as its a great way to gain experience working within the legal sector and in a similar capacity to a trainee. However, I do think that any other role, including those outside the legal sector, would be just as good as there is still a wide range of transferable skills and knowledge to be gained from almost any type of experience, volunteering or even through personal hobbies and skills.

All in all, as much as it can feel like there is such a rush ( trust me I was very guilty of that), I think its always important to remember that everyone has their own journey. Not getting a vacation scheme or tc in second year or even final year doesn't mean its all over and nor does it disadvantage you in anyway!

Hope this helps a bit & best of luck ❤️

 

[Naomi U]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here - apologies in advance if I'm using the wrong forum, but I could really use some help! I have VS offers from CMS and DLA Piper (both London offices), but unfortunately the dates clash and I have to reply in a few days’ time.

Please may I know if anyone has insights into what it is working like in CMS and DLA Piper? Particularly interested in trainee/associate culture, partner-approachability, quality of work, and if there are any Asian and Faith networks (I know that CMS has a Christian Network, but I’m not sure about DLA Piper) – but any advice/insights would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you 😊

Hiya,

I'm probably not best placed to answer as I don't have much experience with either so perhaps the others will be able to offer some insight.
Have you tried asking to be moved onto another programme perhaps? If that's not possible, my advice here would definitely be to pick the firm you feel suits your personality and ambitions the most.

Sorry I couldn't be much help myself but I've included a link to one of the main forums which may be able to provide more insight! ☺️

2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

Hey guys, Please use this thread to discuss anything related to vacation schemes for the 2020-21 application cycle. This can include everything from application and interview advice to hearing back from particular law firms. Thanks, Jaysen

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com