Too late to apply for magic circle / vac schemes

[City Lawyer wannabe]

Hello,

I am 25 years old.

I graduated top of my class (LL.B.) from a low-ranking UK institution from 2016-2019

I then attended a Russell Group university for my first LL.M. and graduated with a Distinction 2019-2020.

After, mainly due to COVID-19 restrictions I decided to take a further LL.M. (Int Taxation) at another Russell Group university 2020-2021.

For 2021-2022 I will be attending the University of Cambridge for yet another LL.M. , since it has always been a dream of mine to attend Oxbridge.

My academic profile will look like this...

LL.B. , LL.M. , LL.M. (Int Tax) , LL.M. (Oxbridge).

In attending a low-ranking institution, it was incredibly difficult to find opportunities. We did not have connections to law firms, campus ambassadors etc etc.

I still managed to gain some 'less prestigious' work experience at high-street/regional law firms. Aside from this I have held a full-time job as a legal assistant and legal intern abroad for one year. I also help in managing a property portfolio covering various legal aspects.

Do you think I still have a shot at applying for magic circle vac schemes/training contracts or would you say 25 is too late?


Thank you.

 

[HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh]

Why do you think you are too late? Have you applied before?

I don't see the value in the multiple LLMs though, would you not be better getting a job and applying for direct TCs and winter schemes now?

I would worry that doing yet another LLM might make firms think you don't actually like the job itself and you'd rather be a legal academic. You've already proven your academic abilities, but recruiters might think you actually want to do a PhD and are settling for commercial law. A full time legal or related role could help show you enjoy working and improve your skills. You say you worked abroad for a year, was this before your LLB (I can't work out your timeline otherwise).

Obviously I don't know a lot about legal recruitment (if I did I'd have my TC already ) but I have helped hire entry-levels/1-2 years roles in a similar sector. I would have worries about all the LLMs because it would make me wonder if you're avoiding graduating as you don't want to work. I would also question why you feel they're necessary or a good investment. I think law firms look more at the undergraduate degree and then work experience, so if you're applying multiple years after graduating but then don't have much experience to show for it that might be an issue?

But again I don't work in legal recruitment, I'm sure someone will be along soon who knows more.

 

[djqb]

Simply put, NO you are not too late.

Just looking at your situation from the tip of the iceberg, you have an amazing academic profile.

Please read these stats from The Law Society from Nov 2020: https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/career-advice/becoming-a-solicitor/entry-trends.

The average age at which solicitors are qualifying is ~29 years. This means, on average, trainees are starting their TCs at approx. age 27.

I have many friends from countries which have mandatory military/national service (e.g.: Singapore) who only started their bachelors degrees at age 21. I have also met people who started the LLB or the Senior Status LLB at around the same age, and you can imagine, that they graduate by age ~24/25. And yes, they have managed to secure TCs.

Meanwhile, you are only 25, and are on track to collect your 4th academic degree.

Once again, in a nutshell, no you are not late at all.

 

[City Lawyer wannabe]

Simply put, NO you are not too late.

Just looking at your situation from the tip of the iceberg, you have an amazing academic profile.

Please read these stats from The Law Society from Nov 2020: https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/career-advice/becoming-a-solicitor/entry-trends.

The average age at which solicitors are qualifying is ~29 years. This means, on average, trainees are starting their TCs at approx. age 27.

I have many friends from countries which have mandatory military/national service (e.g.: Singapore) who only started their bachelors degrees at age 21. I have also met people who started the LLB or the Senior Status LLB at around the same age, and you can imagine, that they graduate by age ~24/25. And yes, they have managed to secure TCs.

Meanwhile, you are only 25, and are on track to collect your 4th academic degree.

Once again, in a nutshell, no you are not late at all.

View attachment 3260

Is this the same for Magic Circle Law Firms? Daniel

 

[whisperingrock]

Is this the same for Magic Circle Law Firms? Daniel

I don't think metrics like that are public knowledge unfortunately :/

 

[Jessica Booker]

Is this the same for Magic Circle Law Firms? Daniel

I don’t know that stats across MC firms, but I have lost count how many trainees I have recruited for MC firms (worked at three) that were 30 or over.

 

[City Lawyer wannabe]

I don’t know that stats across MC firms, but I have lost count how many trainees I have recruited for MC firms (worked at three) that were 30 or over.

Hi Jessica,

Honestly that is very encouraging, I posted the same question on the 'Student Room' and was met with quite harsh comments.

Some had told me that I lacked commitment to the law by undertaking 3 LL.M.s and that my chances were very slim at the age I am at.

 

[whisperingrock]

Hi Jessica,

Honestly that is very encouraging, I posted the same question on the 'Student Room' and was met with quite harsh comments.

Some had told me that I lacked commitment to the law by undertaking 3 LL.M.s and that my chances were very slim at the age I am at.

I saw your thread there. No one told you that you lacked commitment to law because of the 3 LLMs, but rather commitment to a legal career. And absolutely nothing was said about your age. I think people may have been a bit more abrasive than necessary, but you may be reading into it a bit more than you're willing to admit.

Edit: In fact, the comment you took issue to said the opposite on the point of age: "And you think that your age is the issue when there are plenty of trainees who start at a far older age than that. Suggests a fundamental lack of familiarity with the sector and how it recruits."

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

Honestly that is very encouraging, I posted the same question on the 'Student Room' and was met with quite harsh comments.

Some had told me that I lacked commitment to the law by undertaking 3 LL.M.s and that my chances were very slim at the age I am at.

I spent the best part of 4-5 years on the Student Room trying to dispel comments like that from people who are making quick anonymous comments like that, usually with no experience. That place festers an unhelpful and often toxic attitude - I’m glad to have left.

A firm is going to wonder why the need to do 3 LLMs though - that is exceptionally rare and people will need to see your logic as to why so many.

Your age isn’t an issue at all. I have recruited a trainee in their 60s!

 

[whisperingrock]

I spent the best part of 4-5 years on the Student Room trying to dispel comments like that from people who are making quick anonymous comments like that, usually with no experience. That place festers an unhelpful and often toxic attitude - I’m glad to have left.

A firm is going to wonder why the need to do 3 LLMs though - that is exceptionally rare and people will need to see your logic as to why so many.

Your age isn’t an issue at all. I have recruited a trainee in their 60s!

I'll agree that the student room can be full of assholes, but having seen the thread myself the responses are pretty similar to what @City Lawyer wannabe has gotten here...

Too old to apply for Magic Circle Training Contracts/Vac Schemes? - The Student Room

 

[Jessica Booker]

I'll agree that the student room can be full of assholes, but having seen the thread myself the responses are pretty similar to what @City Lawyer wannabe has gotten here...

Too old to apply for Magic Circle Training Contracts/Vac Schemes? - The Student Room

Fortunately these days they don’t let me see past the first three posts, so I can’t see the responses!

 

[whisperingrock]

Fortunately these days they don’t let me see past the first three posts, so I can’t see the responses!

Probably for the best!

 

[City Lawyer wannabe]

@whisperingrock

I found the response(s) I received on the Student Room to be more than merely abrasive and the responses I have received on this forum have been quite different.

I am failing to understand how you bringing this up and even going so far as to post a link for everyone else to see helps to answer my initial question.

If you wish for me to admit I was offended by some of the comments (I had issues with multiple) that I received on the Student Room, I was.

In response to the question that I asked, I was called 'desperate', my 3 LL.M.s were 'desperate' and that I 'lacked commitment to the law', not the legal industry.

The particular user you are referring to also seemed to glance over my question. They did not realise that I had already undertaken legal work experience in my years of studying but proceeded to assume (not reading the question) that within '6 years of study' I gained no experience in spite of holding down a full-time legal job, an internship abroad and work experience at regional/high street firms.

The responses on this forum so far appear to be much more helpful, here users like @Jessica Booker , @HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh @danieljonesqb are providing detailed information in a manner that is helpful and answers my question. Here I am not being called 'desperate' or 'lacking commitment to the law' , instead I am told how a law firm may view it and that I will be required to justify my career choices.

 

[whisperingrock]

@whisperingrock

I found the response(s) I received on the Student Room to be more than merely abrasive and the responses I have received on this forum have been quite different.

I am failing to understand how you bringing this up and even going so far as to post a link for everyone else to see helps to answer my initial question.

If you wish for me to admit I was offended by some of the comments (I had issues with multiple) that I received on the Student Room, I was.

In response to the question that I asked, I was called 'desperate', my 3 LL.M.s were 'desperate' and that I 'lacked commitment to the law', not the legal industry.

The particular user you are referring to also seemed to glance over my question. They did not realise that I had already undertaken legal work experience in my years of studying but proceeded to assume (not reading the question) that within '6 years of study' I gained no experience in spite of holding down a full-time legal job, an internship abroad and work experience at regional/high street firms.

The responses on this forum so far appear to be much more helpful, here users like @Jessica Booker , @HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh @danieljonesqb are providing detailed information in a manner that is helpful and answers my question. Here I am not being called 'desperate' or 'lacking commitment to the law' , instead I am told how a law firm may view it and that I will be required to justify my career choices.

I was merely pointing out that you mischaracterised the responses you got to the point of saying people said you were too old and lacked commitment to "law". That didn't happen.

I'm seeing the exact same content on both sites when it comes to how law firms will view three LLMs and your likelihood of getting a training contract. I don't have a dog in this fight, I didn't comment on the TSR thread, I just don't like people who lie about the advice they get. The people on TSR could have been nicer, but you sort of blew up after they said the exact same things in terms of how three LLMs look when it comes to commitment to law as a career and relevant work experience.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Three LLMs do not put into question someone’s commitment to law, clearly doing three shows a lot of commitment.

The issue is that it is more that this is incredibly rare, especially for someone who hasn’t started their career yet. So it just looks incredibly unusual, and so people can’t see the logic.

What questions a law firm will have seeing this, aren’t really related to “desperation” but more:

- what is the logic in doing three? One is common, two is rare, but very few people do three because it gets a bit samey, and what are you doing that is different/new/pushing your boundaries?

Some firms may also question how such courses were funded? Fine if you have scholarships etc (far more logic there) but there will be a question of your independence if there is a sense you are living off the bank of Mum & Dad to fund an endless academic career.

It might also put into question your willingness to step outside of your comfort zone. Have you got comfortable in life as an academic? And if so, are you really ready for the transition to the world of work after committing to academia for so long.

 

[30plusmc]

I got a magic circle TC in November 2020, I was 29 at the time and will be 30 when I start. I also had BBC at a level which I was convinced would be a no-hoper. I spent 2.5years as a paralegal at the same firm. Do not doubt yourself over age - you can do it!