Some Food for Thought

[gricole]

I have been thinking about this issue a lot recently and just wanted to share and see what your views are on this. I think that on a general level recruitment has gone far too outside the ordinary. The pressure of self-commoditization is something I have to deal with on a daily basis. It almost feels as if you are a product that needs to be marketed. Such materialisation of the self to me is unacceptable. Any box-ticking exercises that are implemented by HR teams (not only in the legal industry) can have a deteriorating effect on your self-esteem and personal beliefs.

What do you think?

 

[Lawgirlxo]

I don’t know if we’re on the same page but do you mean this ‘pick me’ kind of ideology.

If that’s what you mean, then I agree with you to some extent. It really is very draining to continually sell yourself and I faced this 100% during my vac scheme. I can’t help but think that some people at the firm thought I was not as ‘enthusiastic’ as others on the scheme. For me, it’s not that I was entitled, I just wanted to relax and not feel the need to market myself everyday.

Yeah, I do think it kind of puts pressure on some people. If one would ask me, it’s probably why a lot of aspiring lawyers (or professionals) feel the need to share their achievements on LinkedIn (not that it’s bad or that I frown upon it).

That said, I still believe that there are some firms that don’t necessarily care about ‘self-commoditisation’. They seem to be those ones that don’t engage in extensive marketing to the talent pool/students. (Just my opinion)

Honestly, I don’t even know if what I wrote relates to your question but oh well

 

[gricole]

I don’t know if we’re on the same page but do you mean this ‘pick me’ kind of ideology.

If that’s what you mean, then I agree with you to some extent. It really is very draining to continually sell yourself and I faced this 100% during my vac scheme. I can’t help but think that some people at the firm thought I was not as ‘enthusiastic’ as others on the scheme. For me, it’s not that I was entitled, I just wanted to relax and not feel the need to market myself every day.

Yeah, I do think it kind of puts pressure on some people. If one would ask me, it’s probably why a lot of aspiring lawyers (or professionals) feel the need to share their achievements on LinkedIn (not that it’s bad or that I frown upon it).

That said, I still believe that there are some firms that don’t necessarily care about ‘self-commoditisation’. They seem to be those ones that don’t engage in extensive marketing to the talent pool/students. (Just my opinion)

Honestly, I don’t even know if what I wrote relates to your question but oh well

Yes, this is precisely what I meant. It is very daunting to artificially self-promote all the time. For me, this is a somewhat skewed marketing strategy asserting that we shall all become 'enthusiastic' extroverts that seize every opportunity to shine (just think about how many times you've heard about seizing the opportunities from recruiters). Having said this, I don't think that you should not be achievement-orientated. I just don't agree with the way you should approach your achievements at the recruitment stage.

I agree with your second point that concerns the firms which do not spend millions on graduate recruitment.

 

[SJamal]

I did any an vacation scheme in the summer. I felt so drained having to ‘artificially promote myself’ for the 2 weeks on a constant basis, to partners, associates and trainees (all the time). You just end up not being yourself and that I think that (in my opinion) affects your performance. I even use to make a list of all the people I would try to speak too or make an attempt to try to speak too. I think if I was just myself my natural personality would come out and I would have just relaxed and performed well. What you do guys think? Unfortunately it’s an process you need to undertake until your qualified.

 

[PMF_II]

There’s a book on this topic: “Leading Professionals - Power, Politics, and Prima Donnas”. I went to the launch of this book last year and met David Morley (former A&O senior partner). He was interviewed for the book and invited to join a panel discussion at the event. I was shocked to hear the author’s (Laura Donnas) analysis of the recruitment strategy for professional services firms (consulting, law, accounting, etc). Her argument was that professional services firms target “insecure overachievers”. Those high achieving individuals always need social validation in the form of education at a highly ranked university, prizes, employment at a famous organisation and high incomes. They’re the one who will give the job their all (and therefore can be easily exploited) because they can’t face the pressure of losing stability and social respect.

Here is an extract from an FT article about the book:
“Cass Business School’s Laura Empson, author of Leading Professionals, from which these quotations are drawn, cites a human resources director who went out of her way to hire insecure overachievers for a big accountancy group. Prof Empson suggested she was “like a drug dealer, deliberately seeking out vulnerable people and getting them hooked on the high-status identity” of the firm. The HR director did not deny it.”

I think there’re a lot of problems with the current graduate recruitment process. However, graduate recruitment is the gatekeeper, so we’ll have to accept the rules. It doesn’t mean you need to go against your values/principles to succeed in this process, though. As an example, many people have told me to be active on LinkedIn to get noticed by graduate recruitment. For me, social media, including LinkedIn is pure distraction, and I don’t like adding “noises” from other people’s lives to my life. I’m a full-time professional (working in PR, ironically), but I don’t have an active LinkedIn account. I still got TC interviews.

Another book I really like is “Quiet” by Susan Cain. She went to HLS and practiced for seven years at Cleary. She is an introvert, as you can guess from the title of the book. Read it and you’ll feel the need to become an extrovert.

 

[Lawgirlxo]

There’s a book on this topic: “Leading Professionals - Power, Politics, and Prima Donnas”. I went to the launch of this book last year and met David Morley (former A&O senior partner). He was interviewed for the book and invited to join a panel discussion at the event. I was shocked to hear the author’s (Laura Donnas) analysis of the recruitment strategy for professional services firms (consulting, law, accounting, etc). Her argument was that professional services firms target “insecure overachievers”. Those high achieving individuals always need social validation in the form of education at a highly ranked university, prizes, employment at a famous organisation and high incomes. They’re the one who will give the job their all (and therefore can be easily exploited) because they can’t face the pressure of losing stability and social respect.

Here is an extract from an FT article about the book:
“Cass Business School’s Laura Empson, author of Leading Professionals, from which these quotations are drawn, cites a human resources director who went out of her way to hire insecure overachievers for a big accountancy group. Prof Empson suggested she was “like a drug dealer, deliberately seeking out vulnerable people and getting them hooked on the high-status identity” of the firm. The HR director did not deny it.”

I think there’re a lot of problems with the current graduate recruitment process. However, graduate recruitment is the gatekeeper, so we’ll have to accept the rules. It doesn’t mean you need to go against your values/principles to succeed in this process, though. As an example, many people have told me to be active on LinkedIn to get noticed by graduate recruitment. For me, social media, including LinkedIn is pure distraction, and I don’t like adding “noises” from other people’s lives to my life. I’m a full-time professional (working in PR, ironically), but I don’t have an active LinkedIn account. I still got TC interviews.

Another book I really like is “Quiet” by Susan Cain. She went to HLS and practiced for seven years at Cleary. She is an introvert, as you can guess from the title of the book. Read it and you’ll feel the need to become an extrovert.

I have the ‘Quiet’ book; I haven’t finished reading it but I’m enjoying it so far. She also gave a ted talk on the topic (which I love too)!

And thank you for sharing Laura’s analysis - it’s always interesting to learn how these things work.

 

[Jaysen]

There’s a book on this topic: “Leading Professionals - Power, Politics, and Prima Donnas”. I went to the launch of this book last year and met David Morley (former A&O senior partner). He was interviewed for the book and invited to join a panel discussion at the event. I was shocked to hear the author’s (Laura Donnas) analysis of the recruitment strategy for professional services firms (consulting, law, accounting, etc). Her argument was that professional services firms target “insecure overachievers”. Those high achieving individuals always need social validation in the form of education at a highly ranked university, prizes, employment at a famous organisation and high incomes. They’re the one who will give the job their all (and therefore can be easily exploited) because they can’t face the pressure of losing stability and social respect.

Here is an extract from an FT article about the book:
“Cass Business School’s Laura Empson, author of Leading Professionals, from which these quotations are drawn, cites a human resources director who went out of her way to hire insecure overachievers for a big accountancy group. Prof Empson suggested she was “like a drug dealer, deliberately seeking out vulnerable people and getting them hooked on the high-status identity” of the firm. The HR director did not deny it.”

I think there’re a lot of problems with the current graduate recruitment process. However, graduate recruitment is the gatekeeper, so we’ll have to accept the rules. It doesn’t mean you need to go against your values/principles to succeed in this process, though. As an example, many people have told me to be active on LinkedIn to get noticed by graduate recruitment. For me, social media, including LinkedIn is pure distraction, and I don’t like adding “noises” from other people’s lives to my life. I’m a full-time professional (working in PR, ironically), but I don’t have an active LinkedIn account. I still got TC interviews.

Another book I really like is “Quiet” by Susan Cain. She went to HLS and practiced for seven years at Cleary. She is an introvert, as you can guess from the title of the book. Read it and you’ll feel the need to become an extrovert.

Great book (Quiet).

I couldn't agree more. It's not always easy, but you can get through the process being you. You may have to go out of your way in certain areas, but you don't have to mould yourself into someone else to succeed.

 

[Helena]

Great book (Quiet).

I couldn't agree more. It's not always easy, but you can get through the process being you. You may have to go out of your way in certain areas, but you don't have to mould yourself into someone else to succeed.

Do you believe this? It does seem that the recruitment process is funnelled - I know they have to make the right investment and therefore the recruitment process must be rigorous. But sometimes it feels that those hired are a certain type and many from two universities in particular. I do not want to come over as resentful at all, that is not what I mean but there is a battle here and it is still a particularly difficult world to penetrate. At one AC I attended in October, 5 out of 8 candidates were Oxbridge graduates.

 

[Jaysen]

Do you believe this? It does seem that the recruitment process is funnelled - I know they have to make the right investment and therefore the recruitment process must be rigorous. But sometimes it feels that those hired are a certain type and many from two universities in particular. I do not want to come over as resentful at all, that is not what I mean but there is a battle here and it is still a particularly difficult world to penetrate. At one AC I attended in October, 5 out of 8 candidates were Oxbridge graduates.

I'd put it like this. Generally speaking, and this is very simplified, to get a TC you need to:

• Have pretty good grades
• Write an application that stands out
• Perform well at interview/on a vac scheme, which means:
  • Show you can work well with others
  • Build a rapport with your interviewer
  • Demonstrate writing skills/attention to detail
  • Answer challenging commercial questions
  • Articulate yourself clearly under pressure

A larger proportion of Oxbridge students are likely to meet these criteria. For example, they've probably got good grades and the tutorial/supervision system sets them up well for answering questions under pressure. It doesn't give them a golden ticket, but they may have an edge in some areas.

People from other universities can still get there. But, they probably need to work extra extra hard to do well in some of these areas because it's not something they have practiced before.

That's at least what I'd say on paper. The truth is you are right, it is a very difficult world to penetrate and it's an uphill battle. I haven't touched on the bias and the lack of diversity in law firms. I think organisations like SEO London/Rare/Aspiring Solictors are doing a great job at giving students the tools they need to better compete and the legal profession is becoming more accessible. However, there's still a long way to go.

 

[Helena]

I'd put it like this. Generally speaking, and this is very simplified, to get a TC you need to:

• Have pretty good grades
• Write an application that stands out
• Perform well at interview/on a vac scheme, which means:
  • Show you can work well with others
  • Build a rapport with your interviewer
  • Demonstrate writing skills/attention to detail
  • Answer challenging commercial questions
  • Articulate yourself clearly under pressure

A larger proportion of Oxbridge students are likely to meet these criteria. For example, they've probably got good grades and the tutorial/supervision system sets them up well for answering questions under pressure. It doesn't give them a golden ticket, but they may have an edge in some areas.

People from other universities can still get there. But, they probably need to work extra extra hard to do well in some of these areas because it's not something they have practiced before.

That's at least what I'd say on paper. The truth is you are right, it is a very difficult world to penetrate and it's an uphill battle. There's still plenty of bias and a lack of diversity at law firms. I think organisations like SEO London/Rare/Aspiring Solictors are doing a great job at giving students the tools they need to better compete and the legal profession is becoming more accessible. However, there's still a way to go.

I agree wholeheartedly with you on the preparation front and there is work to be done for many on the pressures in the interview process. For me that is certainly the case as I have the grades and applications are often fine. You have put my sentiments into words Jaysen. And it is thanks to TCLA and the support here that I know I am not going to give up. Thank you.

 

[Jaysen]

I agree wholeheartedly with you on the preparation front and there is work to be done for many on the pressures in the interview process. For me that is certainly the case as I have the grades and applications are often fine. You have put my sentiments into words Jaysen. And it is thanks to TCLA and the support here that I know I am not going to give up. Thank you.

You definitely have our support. You'll get there!