Postgrad student here having an existential crisis upon failing to convert all VS

[summerlee780]

Hi everyone. This is quite nerve-wracking for me to post, but I genuinely feel like I am out of options and would love to hear if other people have been in similar positions/can empathize and give me advice.

Long story short, I've been fortunate to have quite a few successes legal-wise in the past few years. I attended a Russell Group university for both my undergraduate and graduate degrees in law. Despite being diagnosed with a mental disability in my final year of my LLB, I graduated with a high 2:1 (69 average). I am expected to graduate from my LLM with a Distinction. I attended a lot of Open Days in my first year and in the past two years I was able to secure 4 vacation schemes (one of which I had to turn down due to scheduling conflicts, but still).

However, I am feeling extremely worried about the future and insecure in myself as I just found out that I've failed to convert my latest VS into a TC offer. It's dawned on me that all of my friends from university have succeeded to get a TC offer/pupillage at this point and I'm finding it really difficult to see a future for myself as my LLM graduation is in two months (alongside my student visa expiration). I did fill out some direct TC applications to a handful of firms prior to the end of July, but realistically I won't hear back for another few weeks and I'm less confident about how far I'll progress with direct TC applications given I assume they are more competitive than applications for vacation schemes.

I know I'd like to stay in London post-graduation for numerous personal reasons, so as an international student, I suppose a graduation visa is next. But assuming I'm unsuccessful with my direct TC applications as well, what is the best course of action? Do I self-fund the SQE? Do I try applying for legal interning or paralegal roles? I'm starting to think that maybe I'm just not the 'type of person' London law firms would like to hire as the Watson Glaser isn't my strong suit and I've noticed that there is a certain kind of 'personality' the firms I've worked at prefer (which I am the total opposite of as a chatty extrovert). Should I cut my losses now and try and switch into an alternative industry (I wonder if there's anyone on here who worked at a separate industry before i.e. banking or consulting)?

I don't know, I'm really embarrassed to be the only one of my friends and LinkedIn network to have failed to get a TC offer and I feel like a total idiot for getting my hopes up this year with a masters degree and a few more vacation schemes under my belt. My declining mental health and personal life hasn't really helped lol. I'm really sorry in advance if this comes off as overblown/overreacting, this has all been weighong on me heavily and I feel like I can't talk about this with anyone in my close circle (friends and family) as I don't want to show how much of a failure I've been. So I'd really appreciate it if anyone has some insight and advice to give.

Thank you for reading this far if you have
Summer x

 

[Aga123+]

Hi @summerlee780,

You are definitely not a failure - securing just one vac scheme is an achievement in itself so you should be immensely proud of yourself.

Given the circumstances, it is not uncommon to feel worried and insecure, especially since this was not the outcome you wanted.
However, I think that you shouldn't come to the conclusion that you are not suited for London law firms simply because you didn't receive a tc- the fact that you secured four vac scheme offers is proof that you did show the skills and traits that the firms were looking for.

Comparing yourself to others is not the best way forward - no one's journey is the same. There are people who were rejected from firm vac schemes and later returned as a partner while others received a tc straight out of university and ended up hating the legal career and starting a whole new career journey later on. Overall, it would be better for you to focus on building a positive mindset rather than comparing yourself to others - comparison will only lead to further unhappiness and low self-esteem.

There are several points to remember that may help you move away from this negative mindset toward a healthier point of view:

• You have a great addition to your CV: Take time to list all the tasks you completed on your vacation schemes and what you learned from the schemes, so writing out the experiences in future applications is easier.
• Feedback can be a great way to improve: Note the feedback you received and think about how you can start working on it. This would also help in future interviews as you can acknowledge your downfalls, and show how you worked on the issue.

Regarding the next steps, there are many options to take -

• Training Contracts: You can apply directly for training contracts in the next cycle which will remove the additional hurdle of converting a scheme - vacation schemes are compelling evidence of your interest in law which will strengthen your application.
  • Firms: You could apply to similar firms (with similar practices/intake) as the ones where you completed your vac schemes because your experience is proof of your interest in such firms OR apply to different firms - use the vac schemes to show that you would prefer something different.
• Different industry: This is an option if you are interested - For example, lots of banking graduate schemes (1 - 2 years long) will be opening in the next few months and you could explore different streams like corporate banking, private clients, wealth management etc. With strong academics and experience, you would definitely have a chance.

Overall, I would say take time to do something you enjoy to take your mind off everything. Also, try not to overthink anything - with strong academics, experience and a positive attitude, you have so many great prospects

 

[InvesmentBanker]

Honestly, I really understand your position. I say self-fund the SQE and apply next year too. Maybe direct-tc is better suited to you, considering that you have done 4 VS.

I know you must hear it a lot, but getting 4 VS demonstrates that you are an exceptional candidate... but probably an unlucky one too. I'm sure you'll get a TC soon.

 

[hannah04]

I just have to say - please stop comparing yourself to your classmates on LinkedIn!!!! I am currently waiting to hear back from my final scheme and I have been seeing a flood of my classmates posting about their successful TC conversions. While this instinctively dampers on my confidence, I try to remind this whole process is about finding the right firm for you, not about timing. Plus, of course we see the successful TC conversion posts on Linkedin - that's what the website is for- but we don't see those who aren't successful (which is probably more people than the successful ones) so it can be easy to think we are the only one - but we aren't (thats why this community is so great - we see the PFOs as well as the successes!) . The fact you didn't convert the schemes has way less to do with you and way more to do with the firm. Definitely don't give up and I would encourage you to self-fund the SQE - its quite common and what I will be most likely doing if my VS's don't pan out! If you notice you don't quite fit the culture of the firms you've worked at so far, try broadening your horizons! Firms can vary so widely in terms of culture and I really do think the right firm is out there for everyone

 

[summerlee780]

Hi @summerlee780,

You are definitely not a failure - securing just one vac scheme is an achievement in itself so you be immensely proud of yourself.

Given the circumstances, it is not uncommon to feel worried and insecure, especially since this was not the outcome you wanted.
However, I think that you shouldn't come to the conclusion that you are not suited for London law firms simply because you didn't receive a tc- the fact that you secured four vac scheme offers is proof that you did show the skills and traits that the firms were looking for.

Comparing yourself to others is not the best way forward - no one's journey is the same. There are people who were rejected from firm vac schemes and later returned as a partner while others received a tc straight out of university and ended up hating the legal career and starting a whole new career journey later on. Overall, it would be better for you to focus on building a positive mindset rather than comparing yourself to others - comparison will only lead to further unhappiness and low self-esteem.

There are several points to remember that may help you move away from this negative mindset toward a healthier point of view:

• You have a great addition to your CV: Take time to list all the tasks you completed on your vacation schemes and what you learned from the schemes, so writing out the experiences in future applications is easier.
• Feedback can be a great way to improve: Note the feedback you received and think about how you can start working on it. This would also help in future interviews as you can acknowledge your downfalls, and show how you worked on the issue.

Regarding the next steps, there are many options to take -

• Training Contracts: You can apply directly for training contracts in the next cycle which will remove the additional hurdle of converting a scheme - vacation schemes are compelling evidence of your interest in law which will strengthen your application.
  • Firms: You could apply to similar firms (with similar practices/intake) as the ones where you completed your vac schemes because your experience is proof of your interest in such firms OR apply to different firms - use the vac schemes to show that you would prefer something different.
• Different industry: This is an option if you are interested - For example, lots of banking graduate schemes (1 - 2 years long) will be opening in the next few months and you could explore different streams like corporate banking, private clients, wealth management etc. With strong academics and experience, you would definitely have a chance.

Overall, I would say take time to do something you enjoy to take your mind off everything. Also, try not to overthink anything - with strong academics, experience and a positive attitude, you have so many great prospects

Wow, this was such a sweet and helpful message. You have absolutely no idea how much I appreciate everything you said, thank you so much, you really shined a light into a dark place if you get what I mean.

Regarding the "different industry" option (be it consulting, banking, private clients, etc) - do you have any resources I could look into to get started? I've invested so much time learning about commercial law and law firms that I don't know much about business or financial markets/analytics. I'd love to know if there are any resources I can look into for that kind of content and also to make applications (i.e. is there a Legal Cheek or Chambers Student equivalent for business/finance students?)

 

[Aga123+]

Wow, this was such a sweet and helpful message. You have absolutely no idea how much I appreciate everything you said, thank you so much, you really shined a light into a dark place if you get what I mean.

Regarding the "different industry" option (be it consulting, banking, private clients, etc) - do you have any resources I could look into to get started? I've invested so much time learning about commercial law and law firms that I don't know much about business or financial markets/analytics. I'd love to know if there are any resources I can look into for that kind of content and also to make applications (i.e. is there a Legal Cheek or Chambers Student equivalent for business/finance students?)

I'll PM you

 

[hannah04]

Wow, this was such a sweet and helpful message. You have absolutely no idea how much I appreciate everything you said, thank you so much, you really shined a light into a dark place if you get what I mean.

Regarding the "different industry" option (be it consulting, banking, private clients, etc) - do you have any resources I could look into to get started? I've invested so much time learning about commercial law and law firms that I don't know much about business or financial markets/analytics. I'd love to know if there are any resources I can look into for that kind of content and also to make applications (i.e. is there a Legal Cheek or Chambers Student equivalent for business/finance students?)

Forage also has virtual experiences for business/finance/consulting which might be helpful as a starting point to understand the industry better!

Forage

www.theforage.com

 

[Jessica Booker]

LinkedIn is not a good measure of people’s success as it typically only highlights people success and not what they aren’t achieving.

Just because you see “everyone” securing something, it doesn’t mean there aren’t those who are not getting that success. It’s easy to shout about success, but people tend to not highlight the challenges and failures of getting there.

 

[koko1029]

Hi everyone. This is quite nerve-wracking for me to post, but I genuinely feel like I am out of options and would love to hear if other people have been in similar positions/can empathize and give me advice.

Long story short, I've been fortunate to have quite a few successes legal-wise in the past few years. I attended a Russell Group university for both my undergraduate and graduate degrees in law. Despite being diagnosed with a mental disability in my final year of my LLB, I graduated with a high 2:1 (69 average). I am expected to graduate from my LLM with a Distinction. I attended a lot of Open Days in my first year and in the past two years I was able to secure 4 vacation schemes (one of which I had to turn down due to scheduling conflicts, but still).

However, I am feeling extremely worried about the future and insecure in myself as I just found out that I've failed to convert my latest VS into a TC offer. It's dawned on me that all of my friends from university have succeeded to get a TC offer/pupillage at this point and I'm finding it really difficult to see a future for myself as my LLM graduation is in two months (alongside my student visa expiration). I did fill out some direct TC applications to a handful of firms prior to the end of July, but realistically I won't hear back for another few weeks and I'm less confident about how far I'll progress with direct TC applications given I assume they are more competitive than applications for vacation schemes.

I know I'd like to stay in London post-graduation for numerous personal reasons, so as an international student, I suppose a graduation visa is next. But assuming I'm unsuccessful with my direct TC applications as well, what is the best course of action? Do I self-fund the SQE? Do I try applying for legal interning or paralegal roles? I'm starting to think that maybe I'm just not the 'type of person' London law firms would like to hire as the Watson Glaser isn't my strong suit and I've noticed that there is a certain kind of 'personality' the firms I've worked at prefer (which I am the total opposite of as a chatty extrovert). Should I cut my losses now and try and switch into an alternative industry (I wonder if there's anyone on here who worked at a separate industry before i.e. banking or consulting)?

I don't know, I'm really embarrassed to be the only one of my friends and LinkedIn network to have failed to get a TC offer and I feel like a total idiot for getting my hopes up this year with a masters degree and a few more vacation schemes under my belt. My declining mental health and personal life hasn't really helped lol. I'm really sorry in advance if this comes off as overblown/overreacting, this has all been weighong on me heavily and I feel like I can't talk about this with anyone in my close circle (friends and family) as I don't want to show how much of a failure I've been. So I'd really appreciate it if anyone has some insight and advice to give.

Thank you for reading this far if you have
Summer x

If becoming a lawyer in London is your goal, I say try self funding SQE, apply for paralegal and get that English Solicitor qualification That is my plan b! We are an incredibly lucky generation where there are alternate routes to qualify other than traditional TC. I know many international students who were able to convert their paralegal role to an associate position

 

[Lawandmore]

Hi Summer, sorry to hear about the situation that you are in. I think the key to these things is certainly knowing your own strengths and finding a firm that mirrors and values these. I certainly had to keep this in the forefront of my mind as I achieved BCC at A-Level and a 2:1 from a non-Russel group university. After a number of years of specialising my application strategy I just achieved a TC at Osborne Clarke. Happy to jump on a call to discuss what worked for me and to answer any questions you may have! Feel free to send me a message

 

[summerlee780]

Hi Summer, sorry to hear about the situation that you are in. I think the key to these things is certainly knowing your own strengths and finding a firm that mirrors and values these. I certainly had to keep this in the forefront of my mind as I achieved BCC at A-Level and a 2:1 from a non-Russel group university. After a number of years of specialising my application strategy I just achieved a TC at Osborne Clarke. Happy to jump on a call to discuss what worked for me and to answer any questions you may have! Feel free to send me a message

I'm so sorry for the late response, it's been really hectic on my end! Yes, that would be amazing. I'll PM you now

 

[prospectiveswitcher]

Hi everyone. This is quite nerve-wracking for me to post, but I genuinely feel like I am out of options and would love to hear if other people have been in similar positions/can empathize and give me advice.

Long story short, I've been fortunate to have quite a few successes legal-wise in the past few years. I attended a Russell Group university for both my undergraduate and graduate degrees in law. Despite being diagnosed with a mental disability in my final year of my LLB, I graduated with a high 2:1 (69 average). I am expected to graduate from my LLM with a Distinction. I attended a lot of Open Days in my first year and in the past two years I was able to secure 4 vacation schemes (one of which I had to turn down due to scheduling conflicts, but still).

However, I am feeling extremely worried about the future and insecure in myself as I just found out that I've failed to convert my latest VS into a TC offer. It's dawned on me that all of my friends from university have succeeded to get a TC offer/pupillage at this point and I'm finding it really difficult to see a future for myself as my LLM graduation is in two months (alongside my student visa expiration). I did fill out some direct TC applications to a handful of firms prior to the end of July, but realistically I won't hear back for another few weeks and I'm less confident about how far I'll progress with direct TC applications given I assume they are more competitive than applications for vacation schemes.

I know I'd like to stay in London post-graduation for numerous personal reasons, so as an international student, I suppose a graduation visa is next. But assuming I'm unsuccessful with my direct TC applications as well, what is the best course of action? Do I self-fund the SQE? Do I try applying for legal interning or paralegal roles? I'm starting to think that maybe I'm just not the 'type of person' London law firms would like to hire as the Watson Glaser isn't my strong suit and I've noticed that there is a certain kind of 'personality' the firms I've worked at prefer (which I am the total opposite of as a chatty extrovert). Should I cut my losses now and try and switch into an alternative industry (I wonder if there's anyone on here who worked at a separate industry before i.e. banking or consulting)?

I don't know, I'm really embarrassed to be the only one of my friends and LinkedIn network to have failed to get a TC offer and I feel like a total idiot for getting my hopes up this year with a masters degree and a few more vacation schemes under my belt. My declining mental health and personal life hasn't really helped lol. I'm really sorry in advance if this comes off as overblown/overreacting, this has all been weighong on me heavily and I feel like I can't talk about this with anyone in my close circle (friends and family) as I don't want to show how much of a failure I've been. So I'd really appreciate it if anyone has some insight and advice to give.

Thank you for reading this far if you have
Summer x

Keep your chin up and try make the best out of the experiences. As others have said, getting a VS is a huge achievement in the first place, never mind three!
I would maybe try source some feedback for why they did not convert. It could just be luck - but if there is a consistent theme popping up in feedback maybe take some time to reflect on that. Wishing you all the best.