Need advice: GDL - worth the investment?

[Fadin]

Hey all,

From experience, I have noticed the questions I have about the GDL in other forums do not seem to attract many replies. I'm not sure why this is but I hope someone could help me?

With the looming SQE and the uncertainty it brings, I'm not so sure about the GDL. There has been information that the SQE will be a cheaper and easier route, and will commence at the earliest in 2020. However, many have said there will be issues with the SQE, like the first few years to take the SQE will almost be the 'guinea pigs' of the course. Additionally, law firms apparently want to put people through the traditional routes rather than the SQE.

My personal dilemma:

• I'm not sure how applying for vacation schemes and studying for the GDL will work together since I'm already spending a 9am to 1am day on law applications (been a week or so now), and I've only just come close to finishing one.
• The September start date is close but BPP have advertised that there are spaces available. I'm not sure if a reading list was previously sent out so I may be at a disadvantage if I choose to enrol this month.
  
• If I finish the GDL and do not secure a TC/VC, I would have to carry on and enrol on the LPC (before 2020), so I can finish the LPC without having to sit the new SQE.
• I know law firms prefer applicants to be put through their LPC course, so how will it fare for me if I complete the LPC at BPP?
• Self-funding the GDL is ultimately an issue (but my parents say they will contribute - however, from the financial background I come from, it is not as simple as that), and I've heard the LLM (with integrated GDL and LPC) is not seen as respectable by law firms? (an opinion on the LLM would be great)
• If I do send off vacation scheme applications and receive a spring offer, will it be difficult to juggle the vac scheme with revision for exams?
• Lastly, do law firms want non-law graduates to take the GDL or would they prefer someone to gather work experience in a commercial field for a year. I have prior legal experience (high-street firm for one week & Pathways to Law programme (with work placement) and I also have "commercial" experience since I have worked in retail for a year.

I appreciate that my questions are tedious but I would be extremely grateful for any input!

 

[Salma]

Hey all,

From experience, I have noticed the questions I have about the GDL in other forums do not seem to attract many replies. I'm not sure why this is but I hope someone could help me?

With the looming SQE and the uncertainty it brings, I'm not so sure about the GDL. There has been information that the SQE will be a cheaper and easier route, and will commence at the earliest in 2020. However, many have said there will be issues with the SQE, like the first few years to take the SQE will almost be the 'guinea pigs' of the course. Additionally, law firms apparently want to put people through the traditional routes rather than the SQE.

My personal dilemma:

• I'm not sure how applying for vacation schemes and studying for the GDL will work together since I'm already spending a 9am to 1am day on law applications (been a week or so now), and I've only just come close to finishing one.
• The September start date is close but BPP have advertised that there are spaces available. I'm not sure if a reading list was previously sent out so I may be at a disadvantage if I choose to enrol this month.
  
• If I finish the GDL and do not secure a TC/VC, I would have to carry on and enrol on the LPC (before 2020), so I can finish the LPC without having to sit the new SQE.
• I know law firms prefer applicants to be put through their LPC course, so how will it fare for me if I complete the LPC at BPP?
• Self-funding the GDL is ultimately an issue (but my parents say they will contribute - however, from the financial background I come from, it is not as simple as that), and I've heard the LLM (with integrated GDL and LPC) is not seen as respectable by law firms? (an opinion on the LLM would be great)
• If I do send off vacation scheme applications and receive a spring offer, will it be difficult to juggle the vac scheme with revision for exams?
• Lastly, do law firms want non-law graduates to take the GDL or would they prefer someone to gather work experience in a commercial field for a year. I have prior legal experience (high-street firm for one week & Pathways to Law programme (with work placement) and I also have "commercial" experience since I have worked in retail for a year.

I appreciate that my questions are tedious but I would be extremely grateful for any input!

Hi Fadin,

Thank you for the above, I am sure a-lot of non-law students are also considering whether the GDL is like you said 'worth the investment'. I will try my best to answer the above queries you have:

1. 'I'm not sure how applying for vacation schemes and studying for the GDL will work together since I'm already spending a 9am to 1am day on law applications (been a week or so now), and I've only just come close to finishing one.'

To be very honest and frank, this is the life of a law student, a number of other students WILL also be studying/working full time and completing applications for various law firms. What you need to figure out is, how will you balance the two, will this mean waking up extra early? going to sleep late? If you feel like you wont be able to balance the two (education and applications), then I would advise you to take a year out/work part-time or full-time and concentrate purely on just writing the BEST applications you could possibly write - who knows, you might get a training contract and your circumstances might mean that your GDL and LPC will be paid for by the firm, (the beauty of life).

2. 'The September start date is close but BPP have advertised that there are spaces available. I'm not sure if a reading list was previously sent out so I may be at a disadvantage if I choose to enrol this month.'

I had the exact same issue, I started the LPC one week later than the rest of my class, which meant I had a lot of catching up to do! Not to sure how it works with the GDL but I doubt you will be at a significant disadvantage, however you just need to catch up on anything you have missed so far, ask your tutor any burning questions you may have and you should be fine!

3. 'If I finish the GDL and do not secure a TC/VC, I would have to carry on and enrol on the LPC (before 2020), so I can finish the LPC without having to sit the new SQE.'

This could be possible, however, whether the new SQE will be implemented is still uncertain, so you really never know!

4. I know law firms prefer applicants to be put through their LPC course, so how will it fare for me if I complete the LPC at BPP?

Not to sure with what you mean with the above query, if I understood you correctly, law firms do prefer their future trainees to complete certain modules throughout their LPC. These modules are called the 'City Electives' (Private Acquisitions, Equity Finance and Debt Finance). If you self-fund the LPC and complete the city electives, I really do not see why, it will hinder your prospects at X firm? On that note, it would be strange for you to pick elective modules on the LPC such as immigration law if you're considering to work for an international commercial law firm who do not specialise in that practice area.

5. 'Self-funding the GDL is ultimately an issue (but my parents say they will contribute - however, from the financial background I come from, it is not as simple as that), and I've heard the LLM (with integrated GDL and LPC) is not seen as respectable by law firms? (an opinion on the LLM would be great)'

I disagree with the above, alot of firms such as A&O, Baker McKenzie and Reed Smith for example require their future trainees to complete an LLM Commercial Legal Practice Course ( which is basically the LPC but a more fancier version with additional coursework).

On the other hand, an LLM specialisation should only be completed because YOU want to complete it or further your interest in a particular area of law, for example, Energy Law. In terms of financial aid, I know on the LPC, student finance pay majority of your fees, however, it would be best for you to call them and actually check how much they exactly pay.

6. 'If I do send off vacation scheme applications and receive a spring offer, will it be difficult to juggle the vac scheme with revision for exams?'

As mentioned above in my answer to question 1, this really depends on YOU as an individual, do you feel like you're mentally, emotionally and physically able to balance the two? A vacation scheme is extremely tiring and demanding, the firm will hold continuous socials/workshops etc and you really want to put the BEST version of yourself forward, however, if you're pre-occupied with exams, maybe you wont be able to? (again, this really depends on yourself). Everyone is different.


7.'Lastly, do law firms want non-law graduates to take the GDL or would they prefer someone to gather work experience in a commercial field for a year. I have prior legal experience (high-street firm for one week & Pathways to Law programme (with work placement) and I also have "commercial" experience since I have worked in retail for a year.'

Again, taking the GDL is a personal choice, law firms will want you to justify why you decided to take the GDL and judging by the above, you feel like completing the GDL will allow you to obtain more commercial experience? If this is the case, they might ask you how the GDL has allowed you to build upon commercial experience from, say your experience on the Pathways to Law programme.

I know @Ginevra Bizzarri is starting the GDL this Sep and @Amy Hillier (correct me If I am wrong) has recently completed her GDL and will probably have other points/tips/guidance to add. It would also be nice to see their points of view on your post.

Nevertheless, I hope the above helps and if any other members have completed the GDL/LPC or from experience are able to share their own tips, please feel free to add to this.

p.s. Fadin, you mentioned above 'From experience, I have noticed the questions I have about the GDL in other forums do not seem to attract many replies' could you maybe @ me what thread this was, so the forum can work on this. Much appreciated!

 

[SameerS]

Hi Fadin,

Thank you for the above, I am sure a-lot of non-law students are also considering whether the GDL is like you said 'worth the investment'. I will try my best to answer the above queries you have:

1. 'I'm not sure how applying for vacation schemes and studying for the GDL will work together since I'm already spending a 9am to 1am day on law applications (been a week or so now), and I've only just come close to finishing one.'

To be very honest and frank, this is the life of a law student, a number of other students WILL also be studying/working full time and completing applications for various law firms. What you need to figure out is, how will you balance the two, will this mean waking up extra early? going to sleep late? If you feel like you wont be able to balance the two (education and applications), then I would advise you to take a year out/work part-time or full-time and concentrate purely on just writing the BEST applications you could possibly write - who knows, you might get a training contract and your circumstances might mean that your GDL and LPC will be paid for by the firm, (the beauty of life).

2. 'The September start date is close but BPP have advertised that there are spaces available. I'm not sure if a reading list was previously sent out so I may be at a disadvantage if I choose to enrol this month.'

I had the exact same issue, I started the LPC one week later than the rest of my class, which meant I had a lot of catching up to do! Not to sure how it works with the GDL but I doubt you will be at a significant disadvantage, however you just need to catch up on anything you have missed so far, ask your tutor any burning questions you may have and you should be fine!

3. 'If I finish the GDL and do not secure a TC/VC, I would have to carry on and enrol on the LPC (before 2020), so I can finish the LPC without having to sit the new SQE.'

This could be possible, however, whether the new SQE will be implemented is still uncertain, so you really never know!

4. I know law firms prefer applicants to be put through their LPC course, so how will it fare for me if I complete the LPC at BPP?

Not to sure with what you mean with the above query, if I understood you correctly, law firms do prefer their future trainees to complete certain modules throughout their LPC. These modules are called the 'City Electives' (Private Acquisitions, Equity Finance and Debt Finance). If you self-fund the LPC and complete the city electives, I really do not see why, it will hinder your prospects at X firm? On that note, it would be strange for you to pick elective modules on the LPC such as immigration law if you're considering to work for an international commercial law firm who do not specialise in that practice area.

5. 'Self-funding the GDL is ultimately an issue (but my parents say they will contribute - however, from the financial background I come from, it is not as simple as that), and I've heard the LLM (with integrated GDL and LPC) is not seen as respectable by law firms? (an opinion on the LLM would be great)'

I disagree with the above, alot of firms such as A&O, Baker McKenzie and Reed Smith for example require their future trainees to complete an LLM Commercial Legal Practice Course ( which is basically the LPC but a more fancier version with additional coursework).

On the other hand, an LLM specialisation should only be completed because YOU want to complete it or further your interest in a particular area of law, for example, Energy Law. In terms of financial aid, I know on the LPC, student finance pay majority of your fees, however, it would be best for you to call them and actually check how much they exactly pay.

6. 'If I do send off vacation scheme applications and receive a spring offer, will it be difficult to juggle the vac scheme with revision for exams?'

As mentioned above in my answer to question 1, this really depends on YOU as an individual, do you feel like you're mentally, emotionally and physically able to balance the two? A vacation scheme is extremely tiring and demanding, the firm will hold continuous socials/workshops etc and you really want to put the BEST version of yourself forward, however, if you're pre-occupied with exams, maybe you wont be able to? (again, this really depends on yourself). Everyone is different.


7.'Lastly, do law firms want non-law graduates to take the GDL or would they prefer someone to gather work experience in a commercial field for a year. I have prior legal experience (high-street firm for one week & Pathways to Law programme (with work placement) and I also have "commercial" experience since I have worked in retail for a year.'

Again, taking the GDL is a personal choice, law firms will want you to justify why you decided to take the GDL and judging by the above, you feel like completing the GDL will allow you to obtain more commercial experience? If this is the case, they might ask you how the GDL has allowed you to build upon commercial experience from, say your experience on the Pathways to Law programme.

I know @Ginevra Bizzarri is starting the GDL this Sep and @Amy Hillier (correct me If I am wrong) has recently completed her GDL and will probably have other points/tips/guidance to add. It would also be nice to see their points of view on your post.

Nevertheless, I hope the above helps and if any other members have completed the GDL/LPC or from experience are able to share their own tips, please feel free to add to this.

p.s. Fadin, you mentioned above 'From experience, I have noticed the questions I have about the GDL in other forums do not seem to attract many replies' could you maybe @ me what thread this was, so the forum can work on this. Much appreciated!

You go girl !! Brilliant reply.

 

[Fadin]

Firstly, thank you so much for all this incredible information! I appreciate the time you took out to reply.

4. I know law firms prefer applicants to be put through their LPC course, so how will it fare for me if I complete the LPC at BPP?

Not to sure with what you mean with the above query, if I understood you correctly, law firms do prefer their future trainees to complete certain modules throughout their LPC. These modules are called the 'City Electives' (Private Acquisitions, Equity Finance and Debt Finance). If you self-fund the LPC and complete the city electives, I really do not see why, it will hinder your prospects at X firm? On that note, it would be strange for you to pick elective modules on the LPC such as immigration law if you're considering to work for an international commercial law firm who do not specialise in that practice area.

This makes so much more sense. I was under the impression that law firms had their own courses at BPP or UoL but in actual fact they want you to take their electives. Are the city electives limited to those three? If it isn't, do law firms publish which electives they want someone to take?

5. 'Self-funding the GDL is ultimately an issue (but my parents say they will contribute - however, from the financial background I come from, it is not as simple as that), and I've heard the LLM (with integrated GDL and LPC) is not seen as respectable by law firms? (an opinion on the LLM would be great)'

I disagree with the above, alot of firms such as A&O, Baker McKenzie and Reed Smith for example require their future trainees to complete an LLM Commercial Legal Practice Course ( which is basically the LPC but a more fancier version with additional coursework).

On the other hand, an LLM specialisation should only be completed because YOU want to complete it or further your interest in a particular area of law, for example, Energy Law. In terms of financial aid, I know on the LPC, student finance pay majority of your fees, however, it would be best for you to call them and actually check how much they exactly pay.

I just did a quick google search and I'm not sure if student finance pay for the LPC. They offer a postgraduate development loan if that is what you were referring to?

p.s. Fadin, you mentioned above 'From experience, I have noticed the questions I have about the GDL in other forums do not seem to attract many replies' could you maybe @ me what thread this was, so the forum can work on this. Much appreciated!

Sorry, to clarify, I was referring to other forums and websites (i.e. TSR)!

Thank you again, Selma.

 

[Ginevra Bizzarri]

Hey @Fadin! Unfortunately I don't think I can be of too much help here as I can't tell you for sure whether and when the SQE will be implemented and what consequences this will have. However, from my part, I chose to study the GDL as an investment. I think that besides its obvious usefulness for getting training contracts it will also provide me with a solid base for a lot of other areas. That said, I am a believer that if you have your mind set on something you will succeed eventually. If I were you I'd sit down and honestly ask myself "why do I want to do this", "how committed am I" and "how bad do I want this". If you can answer all those three with solid, affirmative responses I'd say go for it!

 

[Fadin]

Hey @Fadin! Unfortunately I don't think I can be of too much help here as I can't tell you for sure whether and when the SQE will be implemented and what consequences this will have. However, from my part, I chose to study the GDL as an investment. I think that besides its obvious usefulness for getting training contracts it will also provide me with a solid base for a lot of other areas. That said, I am a believer that if you have your mind set on something you will succeed eventually. If I were you I'd sit down and honestly ask myself "why do I want to do this", "how committed am I" and "how bad do I want this". If you can answer all those three with solid, affirmative responses I'd say go for it!

Thank you for your reply, @Ginevra Bizzarri!

I see it as an investment too but I guess I need to sit down and really assess the pros and cons.

A side note, have you decided which institution you will be studying at (i.e BPP or UoL)? I am torn between those two and the only difference I can find is that UoL allow you to undertake a commercially focused task in place of the research project? I would appreciate any insight about why you chose one over the other if these are in fact the institutions you are sitting the GDL at.

 

[Ginevra Bizzarri]

@Fadin
Hello again!

So I chose ULaw mainly because it assesses you twice a year (January and June exams) whereas BPP does all their exams at once. I figured because the course is so content heavy I'd rather split it up