Legal knowledge vs Commercial acumen

[Casual]

Hey everyone!

Firstly, I wanted to express how grateful I am to the TCLA community as I found the forum incredibly helpful in this application cycle and was fortunate to secure VS for this summer! I really hope I will be able to convert it as this might be my last year of applications before I have to leave the UK :’)

On that note, I am trying to structure my preparation as best as I can and while I found quite a few helpful bits of advice on this forum, I was not sure about the following:

Besides reading the news and the firm’s insights, what balance would you recommend between the revision of GDL/LLB modules and the development of commercial acumen (such as through TCLA’s courses)?

I am leaning towards non-contentious practice areas and from what I heard, what we learn at law school is mostly relevant in contentious practice areas while transactional seats assume more of ‘on-the-spot’ learning of new and very specific legal concepts - so would you recommend prioritising commercial awareness?
And if not, what legal concepts/modules would you suggest revising first?

 

[TC fiend]

First of all, congratulations on securing a VS! It’s an incredible feat that is not to be understated.

I think there’s a lot to unpack here. I’m going to start by saying you should try to keep an open mind as to contentious and non-contentious seats. Unless you’ve spent an extended period of time in both, you’re just not sure yet what you might end up enjoying. I know lots of transactional lawyers who thought they might enjoy contentious seats and hated it, and vice versa I know plenty of litigation lawyers who thought they might like a non-contentious seat but found it wasn’t for them. So don’t close yourself off to an opportunity quite yet

As for prep, I would disagree what you learn in your GDL/LLB only applies to contentious seats. For example, if you are working in ie a finance seat, the drafting of a force majeure clause in your financial agreements will be extremely important (just look at all the deals that were put on ice or fell through due to COVID or the crisis in Ukraine).

If you want to try to improve your technical understanding ahead of your VS, I’d really recommend spending a good chunk of time on Practical Law and Lexis PSL (it sounds like you’re a law student so you should have access to that through your university). There are usually great documents and articles which take you through ie the process of litigation step by step, the closing of an M&A deal, FAQ about high yield debt, etc. I’d also recommend digging around on websites like Investopedia. While no one is expecting you to join a VS with a wealth of technical knowledge, at least knowing what you are trying to achieve and sorts of matters you might be working on will be extremely helpful and make it easier for you to dedicate your energy to making a good impression instead of just trying to keep up.

Lastly I’d say don’t underestimate how much these schemes are assessed on soft skills. Things like having attention to detail, being sociable, asking questions at the right time, taking initiative to take a crack at things or figure out a way to make things easier, are equally, if not more, important than your legal knowledge or commercial pizzazz. As a VS student you’re not going to be the most knowledgeable person in the room most of the time - but you can be the person who went the extra mile to read up, show enthusiasm, lend a hand and crack a joke.

Also, insider tip - never underestimate how important it is to have a good relationship with secretaries, PAs, paralegals, IT and other BD staff. They can give you the updates on peoples calendars, what else is going on in the department/firm that week, and other valuable information which will help you integrate into the team.

I hope that’s a helpful start. Let me know if you have any more questions. Good luck and enjoy your VS!!

 

[Casual]

First of all, congratulations on securing a VS! It’s an incredible feat that is not to be understated.

I think there’s a lot to unpack here. I’m going to start by saying you should try to keep an open mind as to contentious and non-contentious seats. Unless you’ve spent an extended period of time in both, you’re just not sure yet what you might end up enjoying. I know lots of transactional lawyers who thought they might enjoy contentious seats and hated it, and vice versa I know plenty of litigation lawyers who thought they might like a non-contentious seat but found it wasn’t for them. So don’t close yourself off to an opportunity quite yet

As for prep, I would disagree what you learn in your GDL/LLB only applies to contentious seats. For example, if you are working in ie a finance seat, the drafting of a force majeure clause in your financial agreements will be extremely important (just look at all the deals that were put on ice or fell through due to COVID or the crisis in Ukraine).

If you want to try to improve your technical understanding ahead of your VS, I’d really recommend spending a good chunk of time on Practical Law and Lexis PSL (it sounds like you’re a law student so you should have access to that through your university). There are usually great documents and articles which take you through ie the process of litigation step by step, the closing of an M&A deal, FAQ about high yield debt, etc. I’d also recommend digging around on websites like Investopedia. While no one is expecting you to join a VS with a wealth of technical knowledge, at least knowing what you are trying to achieve and sorts of matters you might be working on will be extremely helpful and make it easier for you to dedicate your energy to making a good impression instead of just trying to keep up.

Lastly I’d say don’t underestimate how much these schemes are assessed on soft skills. Things like having attention to detail, being sociable, asking questions at the right time, taking initiative to take a crack at things or figure out a way to make things easier, are equally, if not more, important than your legal knowledge or commercial pizzazz. As a VS student you’re not going to be the most knowledgeable person in the room most of the time - but you can be the person who went the extra mile to read up, show enthusiasm, lend a hand and crack a joke.

Also, insider tip - never underestimate how important it is to have a good relationship with secretaries, PAs, paralegals, IT and other BD staff. They can give you the updates on peoples calendars, what else is going on in the department/firm that week, and other valuable information which will help you integrate into the team.

I hope that’s a helpful start. Let me know if you have any more questions. Good luck and enjoy your VS!!

Thank you very much for such an informative reply! Especially the point about practice notes on Lexis PSL and Practical Law - will definitely check those out (although I am a graduate now so gotta figure out another way to access those haha).

I am also thinking about reaching out to current/future trainees on LinkedIn and was wondering if you'd have any tips on how to go about it - would it be okay to just say I am joining the firm for VS this summer and would be happy if they could meet for coffee to discuss their VS experience?

 

[TC fiend]

Thank you very much for such an informative reply! Especially the point about practice notes on Lexis PSL and Practical Law - will definitely check those out (although I am a graduate now so gotta figure out another way to access those haha).

I am also thinking about reaching out to current/future trainees on LinkedIn and was wondering if you'd have any tips on how to go about it - would it be okay to just say I am joining the firm for VS this summer and would be happy if they could meet for coffee to discuss their VS experience?

I think that’s a great idea I’d say my tips would be that 1) you’re most likely to get a response from someone who has something in common with you (for example, similar school, similar background, perhaps involved in a network you’re really keen to join or in a practice group you want to hear more about) and 2) people respond well to both positivity and flattery. That second point may sound cliche but hear me out. A lot of firms, consciously or subconsciously, will hold onto some sort of hierarchy. It’s not as harshly divided in every firm, but definitely true for some. Sort of inevitable in an environment where your pay is directly tied to your seniority. So if you open in a very positive way to someone a bit lower on the metaphorical ladder, like a trainee (“Saw you had a similar background to my own, would really love to get your insight on your experiences so far.”), you’re both indicating you value their insight and expressing that you are relying on their views as an authority. It may sound a bit backwards, but everyone likes feeling like someone needs their advice, and this is a good opportunity to do it.

Secondly, and you’d think this was obvious but apparently it isn’t, for the love of all things sacred don’t use that coffee to express your doubts about the firm/law. An associate friend got coffee with a vac schemer who talked about not being sure they wanted to be a lawyer, and it left a really sour taste in my friend’s mouth because the application process is SO competitive and there are so many people who would’ve killed for that spot (metaphorically, obvs). So really do try to keep it positive and bring some genuine enthusiasm into the conversation. If you have critical questions, try to phrase them positively (“I’ve noticed I find this more difficult/different than what I expected because X. What do you think?”)

Lastly, come prepared with a few questions. YOU wanted to grab a coffee so YOU should have some idea of what you’d like to talk about. Make it worth everyone’s while!

Hope that’s given you some direction, let me know if you have any more questions

 

[Jessica Booker]

I think that’s a great idea I’d say my tips would be that 1) you’re most likely to get a response from someone who has something in common with you (for example, similar school, similar background, perhaps involved in a network you’re really keen to join or in a practice group you want to hear more about) and 2) people respond well to both positivity and flattery. That second point may sound cliche but hear me out. A lot of firms, consciously or subconsciously, will hold onto some sort of hierarchy. It’s not as harshly divided in every firm, but definitely true for some. Sort of inevitable in an environment where your pay is directly tied to your seniority. So if you open in a very positive way to someone a bit lower on the metaphorical ladder, like a trainee (“Saw you had a similar background to my own, would really love to get your insight on your experiences so far.”), you’re both indicating you value their insight and expressing that you are relying on their views as an authority. It may sound a bit backwards, but everyone likes feeling like someone needs their advice, and this is a good opportunity to do it.

Secondly, and you’d think this was obvious but apparently it isn’t, for the love of all things sacred don’t use that coffee to express your doubts about the firm/law. An associate friend got coffee with a vac schemer who talked about not being sure they wanted to be a lawyer, and it left a really sour taste in my friend’s mouth because the application process is SO competitive and there are so many people who would’ve killed for that spot (metaphorically, obvs). So really do try to keep it positive and bring some genuine enthusiasm into the conversation. If you have critical questions, try to phrase them positively (“I’ve noticed I find this more difficult/different than what I expected because X. What do you think?”)

Lastly, come prepared with a few questions. YOU wanted to grab a coffee so YOU should have some idea of what you’d like to talk about. Make it worth everyone’s while!

Hope that’s given you some direction, let me know if you have any more questions

This is excellent advice.

To add to it, don’t message everyone. I have seen too many times someone message an entire trainee intake in the hope that one person responds. These people often talk to one another, and I have heard light hearted conversations that are basically “oh you got a message off Joe Bloggs, yeah me too - seems everyone got one”.

As mentioned above, be strategic with it and then find different people to speak to about different things, rather than ultimately “cold calling” anyone you can find.

 

[Casual]

Thank you @TC fiend and @Jessica Booker !

I’m quite inexperienced with cold reach outs so it’s great to get some direction on approaching those. Looking forward to putting these tips to use and hope I will be able get back to TCLA with good news after VS!

 

[George Maxwell]

Hey @Casual!

I realise that this was some time back, so apologies if commenting now isn't helpful. However, I thought that I would comment on the superb advice provided by @TC fiend!

I think that they have given you some great tips here. My only addition is that the level of technical knowledge expected of you will vary between law and non-law students, different supervisors and different firms. Asking people who have completed this firm's vacation scheme is a great way to find out, as best you can, the sort of knowledge that might be expected of you. However, this really can and does vary (even between students on the same vacation scheme).

Try not to stress too much about trying to learn Practical Law/Lexis Nexus off by heart. They are likely to give you a good, but probably overly detailed, introduction to whichever subject you are reading about.

Personally, I would suggest purchasing Jake Schogger's Training Contract Handbook I found that this was pitched at just the right level. @Jacob Miller's articles are also fantastic. My concern is just that you might be stressing over, and investing a lot of time into, reading through material that is not strictly necessary for a vacation scheme.

Just my thoughts, and reading up definitely won't hurt(!), but try not to stress yourself out over exhausting all possible pre-reading. Demonstrating genuine curiosity, enthusiasm and a willingness to learn is (arguably) far more important!

 

[Casual]

Hey @Casual!

I realise that this was some time back, so apologies if commenting now isn't helpful. However, I thought that I would comment on the superb advice provided by @TC fiend!

I think that they have given you some great tips here. My only addition is that the level of technical knowledge expected of you will vary between law and non-law students, different supervisors and different firms. Asking people who have completed this firm's vacation scheme is a great way to find out, as best you can, the sort of knowledge that might be expected of you. However, this really can and does vary (even between students on the same vacation scheme).

Try not to stress too much about trying to learn Practical Law/Lexis Nexus off by heart. They are likely to give you a good, but probably overly detailed, introduction to whichever subject you are reading about.

Personally, I would suggest purchasing Jake Schogger's Training Contract Handbook I found that this was pitched at just the right level. @Jacob Miller's articles are also fantastic. My concern is just that you might be stressing over, and investing a lot of time into, reading through material that is not strictly necessary for a vacation scheme.

Just my thoughts, and reading up definitely won't hurt(!), but try not to stress yourself out over exhausting all possible pre-reading. Demonstrating genuine curiosity, enthusiasm and a willingness to learn is (arguably) far more important!

Thank you very much for your reply and I will definitely check out the TC Handbook, sounds like a good read!

Re stressing out, you are so right, I feel the imposter syndrome crippling in, but TCLA’s forum and newsletters help a lot in dealing with that.

With regard to legal knowledge, I think I’m mostly worried about getting ‘tested’ on things I learnt during GDL. I talked to some people who already completed the VS in the firm, and one of them mentioned that partners may know your background and hence may expect more from you if you completed GDL vs someone with a non-law background who did not. I’m currently going through TCLA courses, Practical Law, as well as Know the City book but then frequently stress about/get FOMO from not putting as much attention into revising my contract and tort law notes. This is because I cannot seem to get a definite answer as to whether time spent revising GDL will yield a better return than what I’m doing now.

And on top of that, when it comes to TCLA or Know the City book, for example, I am more confident that the topics they cover are relevant and something that will definitely benefit me, be it during VS, TC or somewhere along my career. However, with GDL/LLB, I was repeatedly told that there is a lot of academic ‘water’ that is not necessarily used in solicitors’ practice.

I feel like the answer as to what to revise/read up on before VS lies somewhere in the middle - I should cover both GDL notes and commercial awareness resources. However, with the former, I’m put off by the high risk of spending valuable limited time before VS on something that may not benefit me at all (which then puts me off revising GDL completely).

Sorry for such a long ramble, but your reply could not come at a better time as I literally saw it while reorganising my notes from all the commercial awareness resources I read so far. I would really appreciate some advice!

 

[George Maxwell]

Thank you very much for your reply and I will definitely check out the TC Handbook, sounds like a good read!

Re stressing out, you are so right, I feel the imposter syndrome crippling in, but TCLA’s forum and newsletters help a lot in dealing with that.

With regard to legal knowledge, I think I’m mostly worried about getting ‘tested’ on things I learnt during GDL. I talked to some people who already completed the VS in the firm, and one of them mentioned that partners may know your background and hence may expect more from you if you completed GDL vs someone with a non-law background who did not. I’m currently going through TCLA courses, Practical Law, as well as Know the City book but then frequently stress about/get FOMO from not putting as much attention into revising my contract and tort law notes. This is because I cannot seem to get a definite answer as to whether time spent revising GDL will yield a better return than what I’m doing now.

And on top of that, when it comes to TCLA or Know the City book, for example, I am more confident that the topics they cover are relevant and something that will definitely benefit me, be it during VS, TC or somewhere along my career. However, with GDL/LLB, I was repeatedly told that there is a lot of academic ‘water’ that is not necessarily used in solicitors’ practice.

I feel like the answer as to what to revise/read up on before VS lies somewhere in the middle - I should cover both GDL notes and commercial awareness resources. However, with the former, I’m put off by the high risk of spending valuable limited time before VS on something that may not benefit me at all (which then puts me off revising GDL completely).

Sorry for such a long ramble, but your reply could not come at a better time as I literally saw it while reorganising my notes from all the commercial awareness resources I read so far. I would really appreciate some advice!

Hey @Casual,

I am so pleased to hear that you found my post helpful. This sort of comment makes the job worth it ☺️

In terms of specifics, I would concentrate on the really core areas that you covered in the GDL (contract, for example). I think that it is unlikely that you would be directly tested on something in the abstract, purely to see whether or not you remember something. If I were in your position, I would not be looking at tort. Instead, I would focus on contract and then depending on the seat I was given, land, trusts and potentially public. This really does depend on the firm though.

The biggest thing to remember is to nail the tasks you are given. Firms will want to see your ability to produce high quality work where you demonstrate key aptitudes, such as high attention to detail. Firms (generally) will place far less weight on your ability to recall and memorise legal factoids(!). For this reason, I agree with you: I would be very conscious about the amount of time that you are spending preparing ahead of your vacation scheme.

It goes without saying, but you also need to have a break too. So make sure that you do make time for yourself in the lead up to the scheme. Being burnt out will only hinder your chances(!).

How else can I help?

 

[Casual]

Thank you, @George Maxwell, your reply is exactly what I was looking for! I shall start with the contract law revision and then will refresh other relevant modules once I know my seats. Also I agree about burnout - I am planning to take it easier a few days before the vac scheme to bring my best self for the coming 2 weeks.

This thread pretty much addressed all of my questions so far but if anything else comes up I will be sure to post it here - again, thank you everyone for your input!