Welcome to the first in our series of interviews with future trainee solicitors. Today we delighted to hear from Patricia K, TCLA's project manager, who successfully secured four training contract offers.
1. Who is your training contract with?
Allen & Overy
2. Are you a law or non law candidate?
Law
3. Which university did you attend?
University of Cambridge
4. Please could you tell us more about your background and current stage?
I’m an Indonesian national born and raised in the Philippines. Currently, I’m about to start my final year at university and I’m due to begin studying my LPC in July 2021.
5. When and why did you decide to apply to commercial law?
My interest in commercial law began in my final year of A-Levels after I attended the Goldman Sachs A-Level Girls Programme. I spoke with representatives from the legal department and learnt about how dynamic a career in commercial law was due to the range of different industries involved, high-profile clients, and large-scale transactions. I was especially impressed by how large a role the law played in everyday transactions and the amount of people and effort that went into the daily headlines I saw in the news. This inspired me to explore a career as a commercial solicitor during my first year at university and led me to attend multiple on-campus events, Open Days, and First-Year Insight Schemes. These experiences affirmed my desire to become a commercial solicitor since I enjoyed the ability to apply what I was learning in my Law degree. In addition, as someone who enjoys learning about different cultures and having gone to an international school for the majority of my life, I found that the multi-jurisdictional nature of the work greatly appealed to me.
6. How many applications did you send?
5
7. How many interviews/offers did you receive?
5 interviews and 4 offers
8. How did you go about the application process? Did you map an application strategy?
I decided to only apply to five firms that I really liked since, personally, I spent quite a lot of time on each application and knew that I had other society/academic commitments that I had to balance alongside my applications during the academic year (which was why I wouldn’t have been able to apply for 10+ firms). I narrowed down the firms I was applying to by listing the main things I was looking for in a firm (taking into account factors like trainee intake sizes, the practice areas they were strong in, US vs UK firms) and then, by process of elimination, decided which firms I felt I was best suited for. For me, I preferred to apply to firms that were strong in Corporate/Banking, had a larger intake (25+), and preferred UK firms (although I did end up applying to some hybrid US/UK firms [eg. Hogan Lovells]).
In addition, I only applied to firms that I had interacted with in the past (whether it be through an on-campus event or Open Day). I found this really helpful since I could incorporate things I learnt into my answers (eg. “I learnt more about the firm’s commitment to pro bono during the Open Day after speaking to X”). In terms of finding time to send off my applications, I devoted 2 hours every morning before my lectures to work on my applications and also sent out my last few applications during the Christmas break (since my university has very short terms). Since I applied to such a small number of firms, this gave me a lot of time to edit my answers and tailor them to the firm as best as possible. In the end, I found this strategy fairly helpful since it enabled me to spend a lot more time researching each firm and this helped in both my application forms as well as interviews.
9. Did you change your strategy during the application process and, if so, what did you change?
I changed my strategy slightly after my first year of university. In my first year, I applied to a large number of open days and insight schemes at various firms. However, I felt that my applications were fairly rushed and I was not spending enough time researching each firm I was applying to. In addition, I found it difficult to balance having to write so many application forms with my university work and my society positions. Therefore, I changed this strategy in my second year by applying to a much smaller number of firms. I found that this change in strategy really worked for me and I was a lot more successful when applying the second time around since I was able to spend more time researching each firm and attended fewer networking events (I only attended events with the firms I was interested in applying to). By reducing the pressure of having to fill out my applications as fast as possible, it also enabled me to step back from my application for a few days and return to it with fresh eyes. This additional time was really key in enabling me to mull over application questions and decide on the best example to talk about or how to structure my answers. In addition, this freed up my time to get more involved with my extra-curricular activities. I think that my involvement in extracurriculars really helped me stand out since, over my first two years at university, I held committee positions in six societies which meant that I had a lot of different examples I could talk about and expand on in my applications as well as during the interviews.
10. How did you develop your commercial awareness?
The main way I developed my commercial awareness was by signing up to various newsletters that got sent straight to my inbox (eg. Finimize, TCLA’s Weekly Newsletter) and reading through them in the morning. In addition, I identified topics/industries that interested me and spent around an hour every week reading about recent updates in the FT or BBC news (this was usually 15 minutes at night every other day in a week). Finally, I also read up on the Thought Leadership sections of various law firms since I found those really useful - especially if you can focus on an area you’re interested in. I found that this was helpful since I could bring up these key industries during my interviews. I think that my genuine interest and ability to talk about different issues within the industry at length during an interview ended up being one reason as to why I was able to display my commercial awareness despite the fact that I did not always know about everything about what was happening in the news. Furthermore, some law firm applications may ask for one deal you’re interested in and this also will allow you to bring in your additional knowledge from the industry.
11. What is your best advice for succeeding at the interview stage?
My best advice (as cliche as it may be) is to practice, practice, practice! Before each interview, I would come up with a list of potential questions (eg. all potential competency questions, Why Law? Why this firm?) and would go over what I wanted to say for each question at least two times. I found this to be really helpful since, even when I was asked an unexpected question, I was so used to speaking about my experiences/positions of responsibility that I could immediately think of a relevant example to what was asked. In addition, I always found that being prepared helped me relax more during the interview. Another tip for your interviews is to be as personable as possible. Don’t be afraid to have small-talk with your interviewer before/after the more ‘formal’ part of your interview since, at the end of the day, your interviewer is human too and would want to ideally hire a person they would like working with. In the end of the day, my most successful interviews ended up being the ones which felt more like a conversation rather than there being a strict question and answer format. Obviously, this is dependent on your interviewer(s) and it’s important to read the room and try to follow the same tone as your interviewer(s) but I found that having the interview seem more like a conversation also greatly helped with my nerves since I knew that was something that affected my interview performance. On that note, I worked on identifying my strengths/weaknesses when it came to interviews so that I knew what I needed to improve on and knowing my strengths gave me more confidence in my abilities.
12. What is your best advice for case study interviews?
For case study interviews, I would always recommend trying to structure your thoughts as much as possible. Therefore, if you see three key issues, you want to start off your sentence by flagging that there are three issues you want to talk about. This way, it makes it a lot easier for the interviewer to follow what you’re saying and also shows them that you’re thinking through the case study in a logical way. In addition, keeping track of the time is incredibly important. In the interview I was unsuccessful in, I completely lost track of the preparation time and therefore felt really unprepared going into the interview. Therefore, for all future interviews, I would write the time that the interview started on the top of the note paper we were provided as well as the finishing time so that I wouldn’t repeat the same mistake. Finally, in terms of case study content, you are usually given some sort of structure to follow (eg. the material states questions to prepare beforehand). Therefore, I’d highly recommend using the structure given since that’s usually the most straightforward way to structure your thoughts and answers. Finally, I found that another important part of my case study interviews was being able to think on the spot and remain calm under pressure. It’s unlikely that you’ll know the answer to 100% of the questions they ask you (especially since I found some interviewers intentionally kept asking more and more difficult questions until there was one I didn’t know) but that doesn’t mean that you are not able to try to use your existing knowledge to figure it out. This is a great way for interviewers to know how you act under pressure so do your best to stay calm and try to use your existing knowledge to think of what the answer could be. Some interviewers will also help and give you hints so make sure you listen and take into account what they’re saying since that will also show that you’re able to take in new information. At the end of the day, even if you don’t get the answer right, don’t dwell on it and remain focused on the next question they ask since you can get the other questions right and getting one thing wrong won’t be the end of the world!
13. What was the biggest setback you encountered during your journey to a training contract? How did you deal with it?
The biggest setback I encountered was at the beginning of my application journey where I received consistent rejections from all of the first few firms I applied to. This was very demotivating since I wasn’t sure what I was doing wrong and didn’t know where to find the relevant information to improve. In order to deal with this, I spoke to a number of current trainees during on-campus networking events to learn about common pitfalls and how to avoid them. I also found that resources like TCLA, relevant articles, and attended more informative talks helped me build up my general understanding of what was expected in an application and what I needed to do to improve. In the end of the day, the thing that gave me the confidence to keep going was trusting that I would continue to improve and learn from my mistakes and that I had it in me to get a training contract - and I’m sure you do too.
14. If there was anything you would do differently, what would it be?
If I could do anything differently, I would’ve spent less time trying to apply to every single firm at the beginning of my application process since I ended up applying to firms that I didn’t necessarily want to go to (eg. firms with intakes smaller than I’d like or firms focused on practice areas I wasn’t interested in). Instead, I wish that I spent more time first thinking about what I was looking for in a firm and then applying to firms that I knew met my criteria since I believe that different people suit different firms and you ideally only want to apply to a firm that you’d want to end up in. Personally, I realised in my second year that I found Banking more interesting and enjoyed learning and speaking about it. From this, I learnt that I probably did not want to apply to firms focused on Litigation since I didn’t know as much about it (and didn’t enjoy reading up on it as much) and therefore wouldn’t have wanted to join a firm where the majority of the work was litigation-based. This increased confidence in the firms I was applying for and knowing that they fit my criteria also made me more confident when applying to them and going through their respective application processes.
15. What is the best piece of advice you can give to future applicants? Do you have any advice for individuals who might’ve been in a similar position to you?
My best piece of advice would be to try to avoid comparing yourself to other people and their application journeys. Instead, continue to focus on your own accomplishments and what you can continue to improve. I completely understand that the application process can be fairly intimidating and that it can be demotivating to hear about other people’s positive journeys and experiences. I remember how worried I felt when I first started since I saw people immediately getting acceptances after their first try. However, it’s really important that you don’t let that affect you since everyone’s journey is different and, so long as you continue to trust yourself and your abilities, you will reach the same destination too. Good luck!
1. Who is your training contract with?
Allen & Overy
2. Are you a law or non law candidate?
Law
3. Which university did you attend?
University of Cambridge
4. Please could you tell us more about your background and current stage?
I’m an Indonesian national born and raised in the Philippines. Currently, I’m about to start my final year at university and I’m due to begin studying my LPC in July 2021.
5. When and why did you decide to apply to commercial law?
My interest in commercial law began in my final year of A-Levels after I attended the Goldman Sachs A-Level Girls Programme. I spoke with representatives from the legal department and learnt about how dynamic a career in commercial law was due to the range of different industries involved, high-profile clients, and large-scale transactions. I was especially impressed by how large a role the law played in everyday transactions and the amount of people and effort that went into the daily headlines I saw in the news. This inspired me to explore a career as a commercial solicitor during my first year at university and led me to attend multiple on-campus events, Open Days, and First-Year Insight Schemes. These experiences affirmed my desire to become a commercial solicitor since I enjoyed the ability to apply what I was learning in my Law degree. In addition, as someone who enjoys learning about different cultures and having gone to an international school for the majority of my life, I found that the multi-jurisdictional nature of the work greatly appealed to me.
6. How many applications did you send?
5
7. How many interviews/offers did you receive?
5 interviews and 4 offers
8. How did you go about the application process? Did you map an application strategy?
I decided to only apply to five firms that I really liked since, personally, I spent quite a lot of time on each application and knew that I had other society/academic commitments that I had to balance alongside my applications during the academic year (which was why I wouldn’t have been able to apply for 10+ firms). I narrowed down the firms I was applying to by listing the main things I was looking for in a firm (taking into account factors like trainee intake sizes, the practice areas they were strong in, US vs UK firms) and then, by process of elimination, decided which firms I felt I was best suited for. For me, I preferred to apply to firms that were strong in Corporate/Banking, had a larger intake (25+), and preferred UK firms (although I did end up applying to some hybrid US/UK firms [eg. Hogan Lovells]).
In addition, I only applied to firms that I had interacted with in the past (whether it be through an on-campus event or Open Day). I found this really helpful since I could incorporate things I learnt into my answers (eg. “I learnt more about the firm’s commitment to pro bono during the Open Day after speaking to X”). In terms of finding time to send off my applications, I devoted 2 hours every morning before my lectures to work on my applications and also sent out my last few applications during the Christmas break (since my university has very short terms). Since I applied to such a small number of firms, this gave me a lot of time to edit my answers and tailor them to the firm as best as possible. In the end, I found this strategy fairly helpful since it enabled me to spend a lot more time researching each firm and this helped in both my application forms as well as interviews.
9. Did you change your strategy during the application process and, if so, what did you change?
I changed my strategy slightly after my first year of university. In my first year, I applied to a large number of open days and insight schemes at various firms. However, I felt that my applications were fairly rushed and I was not spending enough time researching each firm I was applying to. In addition, I found it difficult to balance having to write so many application forms with my university work and my society positions. Therefore, I changed this strategy in my second year by applying to a much smaller number of firms. I found that this change in strategy really worked for me and I was a lot more successful when applying the second time around since I was able to spend more time researching each firm and attended fewer networking events (I only attended events with the firms I was interested in applying to). By reducing the pressure of having to fill out my applications as fast as possible, it also enabled me to step back from my application for a few days and return to it with fresh eyes. This additional time was really key in enabling me to mull over application questions and decide on the best example to talk about or how to structure my answers. In addition, this freed up my time to get more involved with my extra-curricular activities. I think that my involvement in extracurriculars really helped me stand out since, over my first two years at university, I held committee positions in six societies which meant that I had a lot of different examples I could talk about and expand on in my applications as well as during the interviews.
10. How did you develop your commercial awareness?
The main way I developed my commercial awareness was by signing up to various newsletters that got sent straight to my inbox (eg. Finimize, TCLA’s Weekly Newsletter) and reading through them in the morning. In addition, I identified topics/industries that interested me and spent around an hour every week reading about recent updates in the FT or BBC news (this was usually 15 minutes at night every other day in a week). Finally, I also read up on the Thought Leadership sections of various law firms since I found those really useful - especially if you can focus on an area you’re interested in. I found that this was helpful since I could bring up these key industries during my interviews. I think that my genuine interest and ability to talk about different issues within the industry at length during an interview ended up being one reason as to why I was able to display my commercial awareness despite the fact that I did not always know about everything about what was happening in the news. Furthermore, some law firm applications may ask for one deal you’re interested in and this also will allow you to bring in your additional knowledge from the industry.
11. What is your best advice for succeeding at the interview stage?
My best advice (as cliche as it may be) is to practice, practice, practice! Before each interview, I would come up with a list of potential questions (eg. all potential competency questions, Why Law? Why this firm?) and would go over what I wanted to say for each question at least two times. I found this to be really helpful since, even when I was asked an unexpected question, I was so used to speaking about my experiences/positions of responsibility that I could immediately think of a relevant example to what was asked. In addition, I always found that being prepared helped me relax more during the interview. Another tip for your interviews is to be as personable as possible. Don’t be afraid to have small-talk with your interviewer before/after the more ‘formal’ part of your interview since, at the end of the day, your interviewer is human too and would want to ideally hire a person they would like working with. In the end of the day, my most successful interviews ended up being the ones which felt more like a conversation rather than there being a strict question and answer format. Obviously, this is dependent on your interviewer(s) and it’s important to read the room and try to follow the same tone as your interviewer(s) but I found that having the interview seem more like a conversation also greatly helped with my nerves since I knew that was something that affected my interview performance. On that note, I worked on identifying my strengths/weaknesses when it came to interviews so that I knew what I needed to improve on and knowing my strengths gave me more confidence in my abilities.
12. What is your best advice for case study interviews?
For case study interviews, I would always recommend trying to structure your thoughts as much as possible. Therefore, if you see three key issues, you want to start off your sentence by flagging that there are three issues you want to talk about. This way, it makes it a lot easier for the interviewer to follow what you’re saying and also shows them that you’re thinking through the case study in a logical way. In addition, keeping track of the time is incredibly important. In the interview I was unsuccessful in, I completely lost track of the preparation time and therefore felt really unprepared going into the interview. Therefore, for all future interviews, I would write the time that the interview started on the top of the note paper we were provided as well as the finishing time so that I wouldn’t repeat the same mistake. Finally, in terms of case study content, you are usually given some sort of structure to follow (eg. the material states questions to prepare beforehand). Therefore, I’d highly recommend using the structure given since that’s usually the most straightforward way to structure your thoughts and answers. Finally, I found that another important part of my case study interviews was being able to think on the spot and remain calm under pressure. It’s unlikely that you’ll know the answer to 100% of the questions they ask you (especially since I found some interviewers intentionally kept asking more and more difficult questions until there was one I didn’t know) but that doesn’t mean that you are not able to try to use your existing knowledge to figure it out. This is a great way for interviewers to know how you act under pressure so do your best to stay calm and try to use your existing knowledge to think of what the answer could be. Some interviewers will also help and give you hints so make sure you listen and take into account what they’re saying since that will also show that you’re able to take in new information. At the end of the day, even if you don’t get the answer right, don’t dwell on it and remain focused on the next question they ask since you can get the other questions right and getting one thing wrong won’t be the end of the world!
13. What was the biggest setback you encountered during your journey to a training contract? How did you deal with it?
The biggest setback I encountered was at the beginning of my application journey where I received consistent rejections from all of the first few firms I applied to. This was very demotivating since I wasn’t sure what I was doing wrong and didn’t know where to find the relevant information to improve. In order to deal with this, I spoke to a number of current trainees during on-campus networking events to learn about common pitfalls and how to avoid them. I also found that resources like TCLA, relevant articles, and attended more informative talks helped me build up my general understanding of what was expected in an application and what I needed to do to improve. In the end of the day, the thing that gave me the confidence to keep going was trusting that I would continue to improve and learn from my mistakes and that I had it in me to get a training contract - and I’m sure you do too.
14. If there was anything you would do differently, what would it be?
If I could do anything differently, I would’ve spent less time trying to apply to every single firm at the beginning of my application process since I ended up applying to firms that I didn’t necessarily want to go to (eg. firms with intakes smaller than I’d like or firms focused on practice areas I wasn’t interested in). Instead, I wish that I spent more time first thinking about what I was looking for in a firm and then applying to firms that I knew met my criteria since I believe that different people suit different firms and you ideally only want to apply to a firm that you’d want to end up in. Personally, I realised in my second year that I found Banking more interesting and enjoyed learning and speaking about it. From this, I learnt that I probably did not want to apply to firms focused on Litigation since I didn’t know as much about it (and didn’t enjoy reading up on it as much) and therefore wouldn’t have wanted to join a firm where the majority of the work was litigation-based. This increased confidence in the firms I was applying for and knowing that they fit my criteria also made me more confident when applying to them and going through their respective application processes.
15. What is the best piece of advice you can give to future applicants? Do you have any advice for individuals who might’ve been in a similar position to you?
My best piece of advice would be to try to avoid comparing yourself to other people and their application journeys. Instead, continue to focus on your own accomplishments and what you can continue to improve. I completely understand that the application process can be fairly intimidating and that it can be demotivating to hear about other people’s positive journeys and experiences. I remember how worried I felt when I first started since I saw people immediately getting acceptances after their first try. However, it’s really important that you don’t let that affect you since everyone’s journey is different and, so long as you continue to trust yourself and your abilities, you will reach the same destination too. Good luck!
